mouthy pup

[ledhed]

Interested to hear opinions on this.... Napoleon will not stop
biting and chewing on me! He's about 15 weeks old now, and he's
been "mouthy" since I brought him home.... It's always play biting
and chewing, but nonetheless I've never encouraged it in any way and
I've tried several approaches to get him to stop... but it seems
like most of them only make him more inclined to continue.

I've tried:
- the firm NO! and replacing my fingers/toes/arms/pantleg/shoelaces
with a chew toy... he usually looks at me, looks at the toy, and
then continues to chew on me.

- acting hurt and yelping like a hurt puppy, then ignoring him for a
few minutes... this works for a few minutes but he invariably goes
back to chewing on me within a 15 minutes if that's what he's in the
mood to do.

- I've even resorted to putting bitter apple spray on my hands a
couple of times, and waiting for the inevitable... which works for
as long as I have bitter apple on my hands... but this is an
approach that I really hate doing to him... and he usually just
finds a more "tasty" part of me to start chewing on.

I've noticed some dominance behaviors coming out also, and the
combination of the play biting and the dominance behaviors have me a
little concerned. Example: if he gets scolded too many times in a
short time frame, he'll urinate on the carpet. This doesn't seem to
be submissive peeing... in fact yesterday he peed on one of my
guitar cases in plain view of me after I scolded him 3 or 4 times
within a few minutes for chewing on the couch. Maybe coincidence...
but the cause and effect seem too well correlated for it to be
random chance. Another thing that makes any kind of negative
reinforcement training difficult with him is that the word NO seems
to have no effect on him whatsoever... he rarely acknowledges it,
and when he does I think it's the volume more than the tone... and I
don't want to be constantly screaming at him.

This is my first "bull" breed... so I was prepared to deal with
a stubborn streak... but in general he's very sweet, and very smart
(I taught him to sit reliably in about 10 minutes), which maybe
makes it more difficult when he wants to be obstinate.... also he's
teething, so I'm sure this has something to do with the chewing.
But more often than not he's actually playfully biting at me and my
clothes (anything that dangles, like drawstrings/shoelaces/fingers
seem to be especially irresistable). I'm really worried about this
play biting + dominance behavior turning into frank agression as he
gets older. But so far he's very sweet with everyone/thing he
meets, even the cats at the vet's office.... everyting except ants
that is. He's become a master ant hunter and killer lately.
Well... sorry this turned out to be so long... wondering if anyone
has any experience to share or suggestions for things that I haven't
tried yet. Thanks all.

JL

[tinab]

Hi
At this time of age, teething can be part of this, Loosing babyteeth. I work with an instructor who does a couple things. #1 you open the mouth and place a finger directly on the tongue, from the side of the mouth, so you push the tongue down and say NO BITE. pups do not like this, the #2 is to get yourself a small breath spray like Binaca As the p8up goes to bite, you sprtiz the binaca in the mouth and say NO BIte. this one worked at our house in 1 shot.
I keep frozen cxarrots in the freezer and raw beef knuckle bones avaiable for our pup. the frozen helps relieve gum pain (soothes) and the bones actually help remove lose teeth.and give mouthy something to vent on Instead of you.
hope this helps

[Borgan]

Have you also tried the frozen wet washcloth? Treats for good behaviour? The "friendly-surprised" tone instead of the angry tone?

[Kelly+Manja]

hi
i was going to suggest the puppy yelp but looks like you already know that one. I always just gave a high pitched yelp when manja nipped me (usually just the feet) and then acted really hurt and upset :p
Hard to remember now, but i think it worked quite well for me. I also reckon pups will be pups and that theres no way you'll get them to stop completely. Its something they more sort of grow out of rather than have it ''trained'' out of them i think.
I do kno that the earlier pups are taken from their litter mates the bigger a problem nipping is as there was no one to practice their boundaries on.
good luck
:)

[tinab]

JL
one thing I've learned over the years is that NO needs to be followed by another command ex; no bite.
sometime just saying no does not do it. one great command We use is
Leave IT. or No leave it. what ever it is, If you have taught him to sit and stay you can teach leave it.
It takes putting him in a down stay and a treat about 2 feet away, when He tries to get up to get it, Just a light tap on the nose, Reposition to a down and say Leave it. move the treat closer and try Leave it. then closer, You leave tthat treat on the floor and when he leaves it follow up with a treat from you to him. what you are tring to accomlish is that treat right under his nose, in a down stay. when you say Leave it he does. When you allow him to have it. give it to him. the Leave it can work with biting, getting into things he shouldn't and avoiding problems.
Yes I know what you meah about stubborn, my rotts will bow to you if they think they did something wrong, A frenchie just looks at you like "deal with it"
gotta love em and make them think They thought of this new thing. Not you.

[sakirby]

good advice tinab. leave it is such a good command. i also have found that "NO" hasn't worked with oscar at times. he isn't a timid dog my any means. so a good, firm "NO" doesn't even phase him most of the time. occasionally it works.

my suggestions....

accompany the "NO" with a loud clap or some other loud noise. in the beginning, when oscar wasn't responding to "NO", and a redirection to a new "ok" activity, i would say "NO" and clap really loud. he would stop, look at me, and then i would redirect him. it usually worked. if it didn't, i would use something more forceful in volume. i would drop something, or tap on the sink with my brush really loudly while i would say "NO". i would basically scare him for the moment, then redirect him. so far, so good. but, he is really entering the teething phase as he lost most of his teeth this weekend so, i understand what you are going through. he chews on everything! and anyone that lets him! just keep trying. do what you are doing because it sounds as though you are doing the right thing. wait it out, see if things get better, and if he exibits agressive behaviour, you may want to seek the help of a trainer.

but, to me, it seems like normal puppy, teething behaviour. maybe some pups go through it worse than others. keep us posted on your progress and if you have more questions! :)

[sakirby]

i must add that my entire post was in the PAST tense....i am STILL doing these things with oscar and STILL struggling. so, don't worry. i think it is totally normal. and the way you are training your pup seems like you have done the research and are trying to do what is best for him. so, just wait it out a couple of months, continuing what you are doing and, see what happens....in my opinion :) seems like you have a very normal pup. i worry about mine as well and agressiveness. i think that is a good dog owner's worst nightmare...that they will have an agressive dog. i think we have to worry about it less that we think, but, i understand your struggles, especially with the biting and nipping. oscar was just at a farm this weekend and he lept at every kid he met. he stole everything that was on the ground and was basically a terror. but, he is a puppy appicon people will understand and i think that he will grow out of it.

[EmD, MD]

I have found that a squirt of water from a spray bottle has been effective at curing Penny of a lot of undesirable behavior around the house. It usually only takes ONE squirt ONE time and she never does it again.
The best part about this is that if I squirt her from a distance and act like I had nothing to do with it, she associates the negative stimulus with the OBJECT, not with ME. This way she won't start chewing the coffee table after I leave the room.

[Cara]

For what it's worth, our trainer recommended saying firmly "no teeth!" and giving a chew toy. If that doesn't work, it's "no teeth!" and then you stand up, fold your arms across your chest and pointedly turn your head from the puppy (the message is: when you do this terribly rude thing, I am so offended I must snub you). We're having good luck with the social snub approach. Our trainer said "no teeth" is preferable to "no bite" because if you have to do it outside, you don't want strangers thinking your dog really bites. Hope this helps

[ledhed]

Thanks for all your replies...
I read the NILIF article last night and started taking that approach with him... he really responded pretty well too it. I think several of you have hit the nail on the head in that praise works much better with him than anything negative.... his personality is such that he wants my attention and he wants it NOW. Even the act of scolding is really just a game to him... he's getting what he wants (my attention) through negative behaviors. Rather than scolding all the time, I need to get him to redirect that attention getting behavior to something more positive, then praise the hell out of him.

Last night we worked on getting him to sit whenever he wants anything from me.... he's figuring it out quick.... right now he's sitting between my feet staring up at me, wanting me to pick him up and put him on my lap.... much better than chewing on my chair or jumping up and biting at my fingers. A few minutes ago he sat and stared at me for five minutes because he needed to go out... the first time he's given me any kind of a signal at all! amazing... thanks again for your help.

[franp]

NILIF is incredible; it worked for me. Dari is a dominant bitch. No amount of negativity would have taught her that being boss is not going to work..
NILIF (thanks to Roosje) taught Dari that being good is its' own reward.

This training has become second nature; she sits when she wants to be fed. She asks for everything.The key here is to make it second nature for you.
And it will, believe me.

Isn't it wonderful when your pup responds??It makes the whole day brighter. :D
fran

[GigiMcKeehan]

I took my Frenchie at exactly 6 weeks of age. She had no opportunity to learn manners from her Mom and Sibs so it was all up to me. I had a terrible time with the puppy biting/chewing on me. I started yelping like I was very injured, putting her down and snubbing her for a while from the first time she bit me too hard. It took a few weeks of repeating this, but one day she got the message (just like she would have from her littermates) she never put her teeth on me again. My pant leg is another matter. My mistake was in not responding the same way when she bit my clothing. If I could do it again I would teach her to think biting humans clothes hurts too. Live and learn.
Deb

[Martina]

There is a lot of live and learn, isn't there?! Gigi and Lola are both learning some new tricks this second time around as Tigger's going through training. It's so fun to see them all respond :). And I have to wholeheartedly agree with the positive reinforcement thing. All three of mine clamor to do - or try - what ever it is I want them to do with positive reinforcement. But if I ever get mad (and they're so good that it only happens when they do something really bad - for instance, Lola took to pooping on the coffee table :eek: right after Tigger arrived) they simply ignore me. THEY walk away from me. But redirect and start praising - and WOW! - they're all over it!