Ear problem

[paige]

Hi,

My 5 year old female, Cream Puff, has sebborhea on the edges of her ears. The vet prescribed Omega 3 oil in her meals and an "ear shampoo" using Selsun Blue every 4-5 days.
Has anyone else had this problem with their frenchie? Her poor little ears are all black and icky around the edges.
Help!
Paige

[Martina]

Hi Paige, and welcome! Unfortunately, I have no clue about what you've described. Hope it clears up soon!

[paige]

Thanks,

There is another vet nearby that has more experience with bulldog breeds -- she's who I go to when Creamy/ Cream Puff has her dentals.

*P.S. -- just a query. I've only had Creamy for a year -- a retired breeder. Anyway, I'm slowly learning about frenchie behavior. When she's feeling ignored (like when there's company) or her feelings are hurt, she tends to pee on the carpet -- just a little, so I know that she really didn't have to go; instead, she "chose" to.
Normal frenchie behavior??

[franp]

Thanks,


*P.S. -- just a query. I've only had Creamy for a year -- a retired breeder. Anyway, I'm slowly learning about frenchie behavior. When she's feeling ignored (like when there's company) or her feelings are hurt, she tends to pee on the carpet -- just a little, so I know that she really didn't have to go; instead, she "chose" to.
Normal frenchie behavior??

Nope, not normal behavior for any dog.

First , are you sure she does not have a bladder infection.?

It has been my impression that peeing is marking is dominance. Is Creamy telling you that SHE is boss? and you had better pay attention to her?

If Dari wants me to pay attention to her, she usually makes a pitiful cry..

fran

[gmacleod]

Paige: has your vet determined whether she has primary or secondary seborrhea? That makes an enormous difference to the treatment...

Seborrhea (secondary) can be the result of allergies, and that often comes back to the food you feed. What does she currently eat - and does it contain any form of corn, wheat or beet pulp? Those are pretty common allergens, and are also common ingredients in some dry dog foods. So particularly if she shows any other signs of food allergies, such as itchy skin or persistent ear infections, it is possible that a change in food to something that doesn't contain ingredients (usually grains) that she may be allergic to, would help.

Other causes of secondary seborrhea (according to an article I'll post at the end) are parasites, nutritional disorders and hypothyroidism. The point of all that is that if she has secondary seborrhea, then the omega 3 acids and medicated shampoo are only going to treat the symptoms. A cure would rely on treating the cause ;)

If she has primary seborrhea though, then that is a keratinisation disorder and I don't think there is any 'cure' other than treating the symptoms.

Here's a short article that gives you a little general information: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&articleid=1115

[paige]

Thanks all, (roosje in particular)

Yes, in relation to the urination issue, she's meek . She's a total Momma's doggie-- there's no evidence of a bladder problem.

As far as the UK responder, I'm with you that it's probably allergy related ear problems. She also has had itchy paws (but olive oil took care of that). Currently she's eating dry T/D along with Omega 3 oil and raw carrots (she loves them). I guess I'll try to isolate the ingredients and see what helps her.

Thanks,

Paige

[gmacleod]

Currently she's eating dry T/D along with Omega 3 oil and raw carrots (she loves them). I guess I'll try to isolate the ingredients and see what helps her.


Not sure if you're interested in some alternative suggestions, but I'll post a few anyway :)

Here's the ingredient list for Hills T/D in the US (it's slightly different in Europe, btw):
Brewers rice, corn meal, chicken by-product meal, powdered cellulose 10% (a source of fiber), pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean mill run, dried egg product, chicken liver flavor, vegetable oil, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), beta-carotene, rosemary extract, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphophate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

I'd definitely recommend trying a different food. Allergies aside, the T/D contains preservatives that are carcinogenic (BHA and BHT). And ingredients that are quite likely to be the cause of her itchies and possibly the seborrhea are the brewers rice (a by-product of the alcohol industry), the corn meal (probably the most common food allergen for dogs), the cellulose (plant-material that is a by-product of human food industry), and the artificial flavouring.

I'm afraid the only ingredients that leaves are chicken by-products (the definition of which is "consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice") and soybean mill run (composed of soybean hulls and such bean meats that adhere to the hulls and such bean meats that adhere to the hulls which results from normal milling operations in the production of dehulled soybean meal), pork fat and dried egg product.

Not meaning to be rude, but really there's not a lot in the Hills T/D that you'd probably be willing to feed to your dog if you saw the raw ingredients. And there are some very much better foods, comparably priced, that would probably bring about quite an improvement in her general health and wellbeing. Might even clear up that seborrhea ;)

Some alternatives that I'd suggest would be Solid Gold's Holistique Blendz, Wellness' Simple Solutions range, California Natural, Natural Balance Ultra, or Flint River Ranch. All of those manufacturers offer some very good quality allergy ranges, they all use good quality ingredients (no by-products) and none of them contain the cheap and nasty grains like corn or wheat that so often cause allergy problems in dogs, or use chemical preservatives in their foods. They all have websites too, if you want to take a closer look :)

[franp]

Could it be meekness? Does she feel uncomfortable and insecure in those situations? There are dogs who start losing some urine when they feel uncomfortable.

Roosje
Roosje, Thanks, I never would have thought of that. Since Dari is NOT meek, this never entered my mind.

And once again you saw what the problem was. :)

fran

[GigiMcKeehan]

Paige,

Sounds like "submissive urination" to me. Some will piddle a bit when upset or nervous to show how submissive they are. It can be frustrating but you have to ignore it and not reprimand. Most get over this once they feel more secure.

Can you help me with the itchy feet thing? My Gigi is licking her feet like crazy. The vet says it is allergies, most likely airborne. She also rubs her chin on things like it itches too. The vet recommended Benedryl which does help but I have to give it to her all the time. This will make her drowsy. What was your answer it itchy feet?

Thank you,
Deb

[franp]

Paige,

Sounds like "submissive urination" to me. Some will piddle a bit when upset or nervous to show how submissive they are. It can be frustrating but you have to ignore it and not reprimand. Most get over this once they feel more secure.

Can you help me with the itchy feet thing? My Gigi is licking her feet like crazy. The vet says it is allergies, most likely airborne. She also rubs her chin on things like it itches too. The vet recommended Benedryl which does help but I have to give it to her all the time. This will make her drowsy. What was your answer it itchy feet?

Thank you,
Deb

Deb;
I am wondering if the antibiotics that Gigi are on could have given her a yeast infection?? Maybe that is what is making her itch?

Someone I know used Monistat creme on thier dog for yeast.It was very effective. You might want to try it on her chin (since she can not lick it off) and see if it helps her.

[paige]

Thanks for all of the food information -- Ugh! The ingredients in T/D are pretty gross. I'll look into the other brands you mentioned. The vet prescribed T/D for her teeth. What do you do about keeping your frenchies teeth clean? Of course, I brush them and give her chewies/bones to help.
Best,
Paige

[paige]

Paige,

Sounds like "submissive urination" to me. Some will piddle a bit when upset or nervous to show how submissive they are. It can be frustrating but you have to ignore it and not reprimand. Most get over this once they feel more secure.

Can you help me with the itchy feet thing? My Gigi is licking her feet like crazy. The vet says it is allergies, most likely airborne. She also rubs her chin on things like it itches too. The vet recommended Benedryl which does help but I have to give it to her all the time. This will make her drowsy. What was your answer it itchy feet?

Thank you,
Deb

I'm in Utah, so it's very dry. A dash of olive oil seems to help both her coat and the itching in her feet. Also, Creamy does lick them when she comes inside, especially if the grass is damp. I think, like my kitties, that she doesn't like wet feet.
Hope I helped.
Paige

[paige]

Not sure if you're interested in some alternative suggestions, but I'll post a few anyway :)

Here's the ingredient list for Hills T/D in the US (it's slightly different in Europe, btw):
Brewers rice, corn meal, chicken by-product meal, powdered cellulose 10% (a source of fiber), pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean mill run, dried egg product, chicken liver flavor, vegetable oil, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), beta-carotene, rosemary extract, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphophate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

I'd definitely recommend trying a different food. Allergies aside, the T/D contains preservatives that are carcinogenic (BHA and BHT). And ingredients that are quite likely to be the cause of her itchies and possibly the seborrhea are the brewers rice (a by-product of the alcohol industry), the corn meal (probably the most common food allergen for dogs), the cellulose (plant-material that is a by-product of human food industry), and the artificial flavouring.

I'm afraid the only ingredients that leaves are chicken by-products (the definition of which is "consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice") and soybean mill run (composed of soybean hulls and such bean meats that adhere to the hulls and such bean meats that adhere to the hulls which results from normal milling operations in the production of dehulled soybean meal), pork fat and dried egg product.

Not meaning to be rude, but really there's not a lot in the Hills T/D that you'd probably be willing to feed to your dog if you saw the raw ingredients. And there are some very much better foods, comparably priced, that would probably bring about quite an improvement in her general health and wellbeing. Might even clear up that seborrhea ;)

Some alternatives that I'd suggest would be Solid Gold's Holistique Blendz, Wellness' Simple Solutions range, California Natural, Natural Balance Ultra, or Flint River Ranch. All of those manufacturers offer some very good quality allergy ranges, they all use good quality ingredients (no by-products) and none of them contain the cheap and nasty grains like corn or wheat that so often cause allergy problems in dogs, or use chemical preservatives in their foods. They all have websites too, if you want to take a closer look :)
Oops! I see that I originally posted my reply to the forum at large. I'm still getting the hang of this site. Anyway, thanks for the dietary suggestions. I'll look into them.

Paige

[gmacleod]

What do you do about keeping your frenchies teeth clean? Of course, I brush them and give her chewies/bones to help.

I give raw bones. Especially the slightly soft bones like brisket bones (sternum) that a dog can chew right through and consume - because the act of chewing right through a bone is about the best teeth cleaning you can get. Recreational bones are a nice addition to that.

But if you're already giving bones and chewies AND you're brushing her teeth, then they really should be in pretty good shape already. All of those things are way better than T/D for keeping teeth clean. Actually - does she even really chew the T/D? Most dogs pretty much just swallow kibble whole ;)

[paige]

I give raw bones. Especially the slightly soft bones like brisket bones (sternum) that a dog can chew right through and consume - because the act of chewing right through a bone is about the best teeth cleaning you can get. Recreational bones are a nice addition to that.

But if you're already giving bones and chewies AND you're brushing her teeth, then they really should be in pretty good shape already. All of those things are way better than T/D for keeping teeth clean. Actually - does she even really chew the T/D? Most dogs pretty much just swallow kibble whole ;)

Thanks -- The T/D kibbles are pretty good sized, but you're right about her usually swallowing them whole. I'll get a large bone from the butcher. I'm still looking for a place to buy the foods you recommended (Utah is rather provincial & I may have to mail order).
I worry about Creamy's teeth because when I got her, they were in terrible shape -- dirty, broken canine, and a mild heart murmur probably due to gum issues. . . Her previous owner clearly just wanted to breed a couple of litters out of her & then find her a good home (gee, that way I could pay for all of the dental work :))

[gmacleod]

I understand that feed stores are often better than pet stores for sourcing good quality kibbles. But I think the foods I suggested all have websites with store locators, so that might help you out a bit:

Solid Gold: http://solidgoldhealth.com/stores/
Wellness: http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/locator/locator_form.asp
California Natural: http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=stores-tab
Natural Balance: http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/home/locator.tpl
Flint River: I can't find the company website, but if you google it, you'll come up with many distributors - quite likely one near you if you include your location in the search.

[aussieowner]

I used to feed Mac Hill's Science Diet and noticed he tried to catch his paws... After reading all the threads on here, I was already considering changing his diet.

Then one day, he refused to eat Science Diet. He would eat anything else I would give him, but not Science Diet. After a couple of days I realised he was never going to eat it again (it was like he was telling me how bad it was!!) and promptly changed him over to California Natural. Since then, he never tries to catch his paws or licks them. And he can't get enough of the California Natural!!