if you were going to feed dry dog food...what would it be?

[LinoD]

...hey all

i've been reading frenchie books and all the post here in the forum non stop for the past few months...i swear, im going to be an expert soon ;)

so, what's everyone's opinion on the best dry dog food ? which has the highest amount of meat protein and really hight quality ingredients...

im still researching feeding Raw, but for arguments sake, which do you think is a top shelf dry dog food ? Royal Canine ?

thanks, counting the days until i get my little pup...

thanks,
-LD

[LinoD]

just found this web site...looks interesting...any comments ?

http://www.healthypetnet.com/products/food/dog/l-a-foodpage.asp?realname=10082903

[franp]

I don't know about the food; I am not thrilled with the fact that they are hitting on the pet owners to sell the stuff..

A product needs to be readily available. I don't want to get stuck in a situation where I don't have food for my dog.And I do NOT like multi level marketing of any product.

That being said; when I fed Dari commercial dog food, I used Ca Natural.. It is IMO a very good food..

Recently I had reason(my cat became diabetic) to research Royal Canin. The feline food is excellent. I would imagine the canine is equivilant.

fran

[quinnybear]

rocky was on iams and annie was on science diet. (what their breeders fed them) neither, a food i was happy about. i switched to royal canin and not only do they eat it ,they love it . the kibble is very small and they eat it alot easier than they did the other. the first week or so they had really soft stools ,but i think its because i didnt switch them gradually. they are fine now, and i have seen the difference in their energy level and their coats. we were only able to find it in the feeds stores and its more pricier than store bought food, but the health of my dogs is more important than the price . alot of the store bought foods have little or no nutritional value.

[Martina]

my gigi and lola do not do well on high protein foods. they have pudding-like (actual vet term - ha, ha!) stools on high protein foods. when i picked tigger up from his breeder, she actually commented (with no prompting from me, i mean) that she couldn't feed her frenchies high protien food because it was bad for their joints and could cause calcium deposits. of course, tigger is on bil-jac (the brand she uses for pups) which is pretty high protien - and not my first choice of dog food. but i think young pups are different. with all the growing and activity they do, i would think that they need the high protein. i am now working on switching it slowly - now that he's been here two weeks and starting to settle down and feel comfortable. G & L were on wellness in the beginning, which is a great human grade food that they simply couldn't have a firm stool on. they are both 1yr old, and i'm actually working on transitioning them to a weight managment version of food because it has less protein - and they seem to be responding really well, but it's only been 4 days and they're still not getting very much.

my point, when all is said and done, is that, ultimately, you're gonna have to find what works for your animal. lots of these foods cause serious gas in frenchies. and, like fran said, you want something that is readily available ... ie: for some reason you run out at midnight on a sunday - you want to be able to go to your local pet store/supermarket and find it. not have to order it online and wait a week.

[gmacleod]

Life's Abundance looks OK - but there isn't enough meat in it for it to be classed as anything above a mid-range kibble.

A good general guide for choosing a good quality dry dog food is to pick something that:
has a minimum of two named meat protein sources amongst the top five ingredients (and note that in some premium quality foods, the first four will be named meat sources - so don't accept too much less);
that does not contain any form of corn, wheat, or beet pulp (which are extremely common allergens, and in any case useless nutritionally since dogs can't digest them);
does not contain any by-products;
uses whole grains rather than fragments;
preferably includes fruits and vegetables (these are better for your dog than grains); and
does not use the carginogenic preservatives BHT, BHA or Ethoxyquin


Royal Canin's Natural blend range is premium quality food. The other RC formulas are not ;) California Nautral is another premium food. Others I can think of offhand are Chicken Soup, Wellness, Canidae, Innova, Merrick, Eagle Pack Holistic, Blue Buffalo, Solid Gold and Natural Balance.

There is some very good information on how to choose a good quality dry dog food - what to look for and what to avoid at www.boxerworld.com/feeding

[Linnysmommy]

We give all of our dogs Pro Plan. Of course, the puppies get Pro Plan puppy. They all do very well on it.

[franp]

A tip to firm up stool.Go to the health food store and get bone meal.Start out with about 1/8 tsp in the dog's food.If this amount does not do the trick then increase.

One of the reasons raw fed dogs have firm stool is because of the bone.And it is a good way for your dog to get calcium.

fran

[Martina]

Thanks for that advise Fran ... I do feed them bones every so often, but we are on such a high-fiber diet at the moment that their stool is already VERY firm. We're on it because of Gigi's anal prolapse and colopexy. I have to be very careful that she doesn't strain too much, and the high fiber diet works for her. Maybe bone meal daily would be a good supplement as well.

[Carolyn]

Abby and Ferris are on Wellness kibble with some bits of home cooked lamb or turkey mixed in. They have beautiful coats and seem to like it.


Ripley (16 1/2 yr old St Poodle) is on Wellness senior and also likes.

Wellness does not contain any rendered animal fats, meat by-products, wheat, corn or white rice and also does not contain any artificial colors, flavors or preservatives of any kind.

Carolyn

[Carolyn]

Lilydog...thanks for sharing your info. This is good information and I'm glad to hear your pup is doing well on this diet. :p Carolyn

[quinnybear]

our local feed store carries alot of the good quality dog foods, canidae, mother hubbard. chiken soup. pro plan, etc. i had mine on royal canin, until yesterday. the people that own the store are all family, brother ,sister and their kids.all very nice people and helpful with any questions. i had a long gab session with one of the owners yesterday about dog foods. she owns english bulldogs and i told her that my two were doing so well on the rc except for the looser stools. she said it was probably because of the high protein in the food. so she reccomended veterinarian formulated complete (vp) and i am weaning them over to it and hopefully that will help with the loose stool problem. has anyone ever heard of this food ? :confused:

[franp]

I have not heard of it; is the protien content higher in the RC than this food?

At one point Dari was on Innova; which is known to cause loose stool in certain dogs because of the fact it has multiple ingredients. I switched her to Ca Natural ; the same company, but a different formulation.Less ingredients. Better BM..

This idea of high protien causing loose stool is new to me.Why would it cause loose stool? Raw feed dogs are on a very high protien diet and do not have this problem.

Can you ask the people that own the store?

fran

[quinnybear]

this is the info i found about it. i will talk to the woman at the feed store when i go back in there. i dont know if this will show up in a link, but here is the website.

http://www.arkat.com/vfpuppy.html

[franp]

The link did come thru.The food you are changing to has 28% ; the RC has 30%.They both have very similar ingredients.Both appear to be good food.

I just am curious as to why high protien would cause loose stool.
Thanks in advance for finding out.

Tell us ,please in a couple of weeks, what your feeling is about how the dogs are reacting to this food.

fran

[gmacleod]

I don't know about high levels of protein causing loose stool (haven't heard that one before) but personally I would be extremely wary of feeding a dry food with a protein level up around 30% - most especially to a puppy.

Overnutrition of puppies is known to cause or exacerbate a wide range of growth and musculoskeletal disorders (not just hip dysplasia, and not just in large breed dogs).

[Bella]

Bella eats Cali Natural wet mixed with Innova dry. Its pretty easy to find. I mix the dry and wet b/c too much Cali natural and she gets "knock you over" gas. These are all natural and have the highest grade protein. Since I have had her on this diet, her coat is much more shiny. I also have been putting in a little all natural plain yogurt a few times a week to help with her digestive system (also keeps her stool firmer).

[adora's mom]

I had a similar experience to Judy with California Natural - although I think it's a fabulous food, just not for my 2 dogs & their sensitive tummies.

I would have to give my vote to Canidae. Both are doing well on it - have shiny fur, bright eyes, etc. I give Adora acidophilus in addition to Canidae to help with gas.

[Autumn&Remi]

I actually rotate Remi's (she is a boxer, not a Frenchie) kibble every bag so we currently are on Merrick's Wilderness Blend. She started on Chicken Soup and then we went to Wellness Fish n Sweetpotato. I rotate because I received some very good advice on Boxerworld that you should vary their protein sources. This way Remi gets a variety and doesnt get bored! I should mention that my puppy seems to have a cast iron stomach, she nevers gets loose stools!!

Autumn

[LinoD]

interesting link i found...

http://www.iei.net/~ebreeden/kibble.html

[franp]

Lino,
that is a very intereresting link.

Please note; Ethiquoxin is a carcinogen, so if any food has it as an ingredient; do not use it.

fran

[gmacleod]

Mmm yes, ethoxyquin is indeed thought to be carcinogenic and it's use is heavily regulated (and debated as to whether it should be allowed at all) in human food. And the amounts allowed in dog food is substantially higher.

But you should note that it will *not* necessarily be listed as an ingredient in dog food, even if it is present. This is because animal feed regulations only require the manufacturer to list those ingredients that they themselves add. In the case of ethoxyquin, it is often added as a preservative (to fish in particular) before the ingredient is delivered to the dog food manufacturer - and the manufacturer is therefore not obliged to disclose its presence in the ingredient listing. Nice, hmmm?

That is another good reason for choosing foods that use only human-grade ingredients. Still doesn't guarantee that ethoxyquin won't be present, but if it is, then at least it will be in very low amounts.

Other carcinogenic preservatives you should check for (and avoid like the plague) are BHT, BHA and propylene glycol (a less toxic form of anti-freeze).

[evangelie]

All our dogs eat Royal Canin and we mix in rice. They just love it. ;)

[nana]

well we recently put huda on eagle pack and shes doing very well on it. her stool is firm and she wolfs it down. i read that the loose stool comes from the percentage of fiber that the kibbile has. before she was on nutro which had 3,00% fiber and her stool was very loose and now on eagle which has 3,5% fiber she has very firm good stool. i guess it also depends on the dog i know someone who only gives kibbille with 4,00% fiber iwith anytghing less he old me that the stool would be firm one day and loose another.

good luck hope this helps

[ledhed]

Other carcinogenic preservatives you should check for (and avoid like the plague) are BHT, BHA and propylene glycol (a less toxic form of anti-freeze).[/QUOTE]


.... I've seen BHT mentioned several times in these threads...
Actually BHT has been shown rather conclusively to prevent stomach cancer in humans.... it was once used widely as a preservative in human foods (especially canned veggies) and later they started removing it due to anti-preservative trends... stomach cancer rates in the US have been rising in correlation with the decreased use of BHT. In later studies a causal link was found between BHT and prevention of somtach cancer. Then again, dog biology may be different.......

[gmacleod]

Actually BHT has been shown rather conclusively to prevent stomach cancer in humans.... Then again, dog biology may be different.......
Yep. That's stomach cancer, and in humans. I think "conclusive" is rather an overstatement though ;)
And in laboratory tests on mice a causal link has been found between BHT and an increased incidence of liver and lung cancer, and in rats an increased incidence of bladder, thyroid and lung cancers. In dogs, BHT is believed to have similar effects, and (as is the case with people) is thought to increase behavioural and aggression problems as well. LOL - so at best you reduce the risk of stomach cancer, but increase the risk of several other cancers instead... Nice, but no thanks. I would not feed that to my dog.

[WhitneysMom]

I said this on another post; almost the same topic..... I started my cats on Feline Caviar and they love it, I am going to start Whitney on Canine Caviar. I have heard lots of good things about it especialy the raw formula.

[franp]

I said this on another post; almost the same topic..... I started my cats on Feline Caviar and they love it, I am going to start Whitney on Canine Caviar. I have heard lots of good things about it especialy the raw formula.

What are the ingredients in the "raw formula" and do you know how it comes? Cans ? Frozen?

[WhitneysMom]

www.caninecaviar.com

I thought going to the website would be better information than I can give, I use the kibble from them.

[franp]

Canine Caviar is NOT raw. It is a processed food and as such is cooked. Therefore it is not raw.
Some of the products are made with grain; contrary to a RAW diet. Millet is grain.
It does, in its defense have no preservatives. But do not be decieved; it is NOT a raw diet.

[WhitneysMom]

Are you talking about the kibble line or the other [raw] line? I do not know alot about raaw diets, I have just heard from people they like htheir raw food. I only feed the Canine Caviar Kibble

[franp]

Whitney
Canine Caviar is NOT a raw diet. ALL of thier food is processed. To be a raw diet the food is NOT cooked. If it is canned or kibble it is cooked.
Just not having grain does not make it a raw diet.

fran

[WhitneysMom]

Like I said I do not know a whole lot about raw diets, but I do know what raw is and I do know that canned and kibble are not raw. I put the site link up so the 'raw diet pet parents' could check it out and reveiw for their liking. I did find out that their raw formulas are not yet for sale to the public so that would explain why I can't find any information on the site about it. I will keep you posted if I hear anything, or get any info on the raw formula when it comes out. Sorry for the jumped gun mix up

[Shana1965]

...hey all

so, what's everyone's opinion on the best dry dog food ? which has the highest amount of meat protein and really hight quality ingredients...

im still researching feeding Raw, but for arguments sake, which do you think is a top shelf dry dog food ? Royal Canine ?
-LD


I feed canned and kibble Canidae. It is the first kibble that I have ever used and liked the outcome on all three of my poops.

I did raw for almost a year and I got to the point that it just totally grossed me out!!! But a lot of people do it and love it.

-Shana

[Lisa]

Our English started out on "CANUSA" and then we moved to a reduced protien diet from "MED-I-CAL."

We will be feeding our new puppy "Wellness" and I've heard great things about it from many, many owners.

[Carolyn]

Lisa...we used to feed Nutro High Energy to Abby (mostly for my very active girl) and Ferris but changed to Wellness nearly a year ago because I learned that Wellness was "human grade" stuff. They both like it, stools are firm, etc. I also have a 16 1/2 yr old Standard Pood who was on Iams Sr for years....we changed his diet to Wellness Senior and he is doing very well on this kibble. Many on this site swear by raw. I think raw is just fine...my vet feeds his dogs raw... but it's really all about what what you are comfortable with. Some like Wellness, some have tried Wellness and prefer other brands. It's all about what works with your pup. Carolyn

[sbatease]

Right now I'm feeding Big BilJac puppy formula (which is what the breeder fed him) but planning to switch to Innova puppy formula (which was our vet recommended). I've been adding banana every so often to his meals (which he absolutely loves) and using baby carrots cut up as treats. I've recently learned the hard way that apples give him gas :eek: . I was wondering if anyone could recommend any other types of raw fruits or vegetables I could add to his diet?

[gmacleod]

The only fruits I can think of right now that you really need to avoid are grapes and raisins. These are toxic and can cause kidney failure. More about that in this article: http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=grapes

Most fruits and vegetables are fine - but the seeds aren't. Apple seeds are mildly toxic (cyanide) so need to be avoided in anything but very small doses (the apple is fine, but you might like to remove the core). Likewise the stones in fruits such as peaches, plums and nectarines shouldn't be given.

Incidentally - great choice in switching from Bil Jac to Innova :) Innova is one of the best dog foods on the market, while Bil Jac is one of the worst. Your dog will love you for it, I'm sure :) Good to see such a good recommendation from a vet too.

[aussieowner]

Ok, I have a bit of a stupid question (and am embarrassed to ask). Mac ate one sultana (raisin) this morning... should I be concerned? I understand they are toxic, just wondering if it only takes one...

[Borgan]

Heehee - "sultana"! He'll be fine - it was just a "wee one", not an enormous heap. He just might have to go to the "loo".

[Borgan]

ps. We were at a house where a baby lives, and there were raisins in every nook and crannie, which Luna "hoovered" and she's still alive.

[aussieowner]

Heehee - "sultana"! He'll be fine - it was just a "wee one", not an enormous heap. He just might have to go to the "loo".

:o I guess I am a bit of a worrier! I sort of knew that asking the question was a little silly in itself, and I am sure that Mac has "hoovered" up other bits and pieces in his time! Thanks for the response, my husband told me not to worry... but I am the typical Mum about these types of things!!

[Borgan]

"No worries, mate!"

Once Luna licked some dry paint off a doorstop and I thought she was a goner for sure.

[WhitneysMom]

When it comes to your 4-legged loved ones or any loved ones for that matter, there is no such thing as a stupid question! That is why there are boards like this. Heaven for bid you do not ask things and something awefull comes of it. Plus my favorite questions are usually the so-called "stupid" ones because there are lots of people that do not ask or do not post that are wondering some of the same things. These questions help me and so many other Frenchie lovers!

Cheers to QUESTIONS of all kinds appicon fiestaicon

[mylinda25]

Okay, this is all so confusing because everyone likes different dog foods! The one thing everyone seems to like is RAW but, there is no way I can afford that (single mom, full time student). Tank seems to have a good stomach. Write now in the morning he eats Pedigree wet food & throughout the day he eats Purina 1 dry food. I want what is best for him & he needs to fatten up. Any suggestions on food? How about things I could add to his food. I noticed some people use yogurt!

[My2Frenchies]

We've been feeding our guys IVD duck & potato and venison & potato (dry and canned). Has anyone used this brand? Would appreciate any feedback!

I know everyone agrees raw is the way to go, and I'm doing my research, but in the meantime, this is what we've been using...

Laurie

[WhitneysMom]

go to http://www.prescriptiondiets.com/rc.html for more info, it seems that Royal Canin has purchased IVD as well as Waltham.









We've been feeding our guys IVD duck & potato and venison & potato (dry and canned). Has anyone used this brand? Would appreciate any feedback!

I know everyone agrees raw is the way to go, and I'm doing my research, but in the meantime, this is what we've been using...

Laurie

[gmacleod]

The one thing everyone seems to like is RAW but, there is no way I can afford that (single mom, full time student).

Pre-made raw is expensive, but if you make your own it is not. I currently have one boxer and three cats on raw food - I've been making my own (to the extent that you can say that about raw LOL) for 30 years, and I can say without any doubt at all that it is cheaper than buying kibble. In my case, in London where there is no shortage of butchers, it is a LOT cheaper. It all depends on the sources you can find for foods (and there are a lot of barf co-ops around).

Actually, I'm lazy and buy most of my stuff at supermarkets - but it is *still* cheaper than buying kibble.

Any suggestions on food? How about things I could add to his food. I noticed some people use yogurt!

There are plenty of good kibbles around. Pedigree and Purina aren't amongst them though, I'm afraid those are very low quality foods - made up primarily of grain fragments and animal by-products.

Can I suggest that you take a look at this link: www.boxerworld.com/feeding That page tells you in reasonable detail what you should be looking for in a decent quality dry dog food. A food can only ever be as good as the ingredients that go into it - and that page tells you what you should look for, what to avoid, and why. Armed with that knowledge, it's not so hard to choose a good quality food.

If you don't want to reinvent the wheel, however, you could just choose a food from the annual list of quality dog foods put out by the Whole Dog Journal (WDJ). They are completely independant of any food manufacturers, so what you get from them is good unbiased advice. They also use a selection criteria (that I'll post below) very similar to the link I gave you above.

WDJ Quality Food list 2005
Artemis
Azmira
Back to Basics
Bench & Field Holistic Natural
Blue Buffalo
Burns
California Natural
Canidae
Chicken Soup
Drs Foster & Smith
Eagle Pack Holistic
Flint River
Foundations
Fromm Four Star
Go! Natural
Innova
Karma Organic
Lick Your Chops
Lifespan
Limited Diets
Merrick
Natural Balance Ultra
Newman’s Own Organic
Organix
PHD Viand
Pinnacle
Prairie
Prime Life
Royal Canin Natural Blend
Solid Gold
Timberwolf Organics
VeRUS
Wellness
Wysong

New to 2005
By Nature Brightlife
Canine Caviar
Cloud Star
Evolve
Nutro Natural Choice Ultra
Premium Edge
Wellness Simple Food Solutions

And their selection criteria:
WDJ’s Dry Dog Food Selection Criteria

• We look for foods that contain a lot of high-quality animal proteins. We like manufacturers to disclose the approximate percentage of meat, poultry, or fish in their food, but they rarely will, so we look for foods that appear to have lots of animal protein. Ingredients are listed in order or their weight, so ideally a food will have one or two animal proteins in the first few ingredients. Understand that whole meat (chicken, beef, lamb, etc.) contains a lot of water weight. If a food list starts out with chicken, and there is no other animal protein listed until 7th or 8th on the list, the food does not actually contain a lot of animal protein. But if it starts out with chicken, and chicken (or another animal) “meal” (essentially dehydrated chicken) is number two or three on the list, chances are the product contains an admirable amount of animal protein. Animal proteins tend to be more digestible and palatable than plant proteins and offer a wider array of essential and nonessential amino acids.

• We reject any food containing meat by-products or poultry by-products. It’s just about impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products used by a food manufacturer. We’ve spoken to representatives who swore they used only the finest sources of by-products, but when asked, they all say that! The fact is, there is a much wider range of quality in the by-products available for pet food manufacturing than there is for whole meats. Whole meats are expensive, and because they are expensive, dog food makers insist on their quality to an extent that is unreasonable when buying bargain-basement by-products. So, because the quality cannot be confirmed, we advise that you just avoid foods that contain by-products. NOTE: Some of our past selections do contain meat and/or poultry by-products. To winnow own our list to the very best foods possible, we no longer select products that contain meat or poultry by-products.

• We reject foods containing fat or protein not identified by species. “Animal fat” is a euphemism for a low-quality, low-priced mix of fats of uncertain origin. “Meat meal” could be anything. We shudder.

• We look for the use of whole grains and vegetables. That said, some grains and vegetables have valuable constituents that accomplish specific tasks in dog food formula. We don’t think it’s worth getting too excited about one vegetable fragment and one grain by-product on the ingredients panel. Our tolerance diminishes in direct proportion to the number of fragments and by-products contained in a food and the prominence on a label; the more there are, and/or the higher they appear on the ingredients list, the lower-quality the food.

• We eliminate all foods with artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives listed on their ingredients panels. NOTE: Some ingredients – usually fats, and some fish products – arrive at the pet food factory containing artificial preservatives; these do not have to be disclosed on the ingredient list, since the maker did not add them.

• We eliminate all foods with added sweeteners. Dogs, like people, enjoy sweet foods. Like people, they can develop a taste for these nutritionally empty calories. To meet our approval, food need not offer the following. But we like it when they do.

• We really appreciate it when the date-code or production code is easy to find, read, and interpret.

• The more items listed on a product label’s “guaranteed analysis,” the better.

• We like to see the caloric content of the food listed on the label.

• It makes things so much easier when all of the food maker’s contact information (address, phone, Web address) is listed on its product labels.

• We feel better when a food has passed an AAFCO feeding trial.

• We appreciate organic ingredients.

Any of the foods on the WDJ list would be a good choice. My recommendations would include Chicken Soup, Wellness, Innova, Solid gold, California Natural, Blue Buffalo, Canidae and Fromms Four Star.

Since you're concerned with price I would also just point out that with premium foods like these, you will find you feed a great deal less of it. So when you're looking at foods, don't just look at the price tag on the bag - look at the feeding recommendations as well. Very often a premium food will actually work out cheaper to feed than a low quality one, simply because you feed so much less. And that's without even taking into account the long term health benefits and costs.

[mylinda25]

Thank you so much for all of your help!

[Frankie's mom]

I don't know about the food; I am not thrilled with the fact that they are hitting on the pet owners to sell the stuff..

A product needs to be readily available. I don't want to get stuck in a situation where I don't have food for my dog.And I do NOT like multi level marketing of any product.

That being said; when I fed Dari commercial dog food, I used Ca Natural.. It is IMO a very good food..

Recently I had reason(my cat became diabetic) to research Royal Canin. The feline food is excellent. I would imagine the canine is equivilant.

fran
what do you think of the solid gold lamb and rice formula?

[LinoD]

PS: After starting this thread and 'thinking' raw was going to be to much of a hassel and feeding dry kibble would be much easier...how wrong i was.

after doing many, many weeks of research and many books later, im now feeding Natures Variety raw. It's super easy to feed (comes in little 1 oz. madaleons or 8 oz. patties) and most importantly it's the Healthiest way to go imho, hands down, my pup is living proof...his shiny coat, his upbeat attitude and man, he goes nuts for the stuff, he LOVES IT...

if i was to do it all over again, i would have started on raw food from day one, every dog i own from here on in will be feed raw.

still want to feed dry kibble ? ask yourself this...when's the last time you saw a dog or any animal in the world cooking his food ? - nuff said. :)

[franp]

Lino,
You slay me :lol: :lol: ,
I just spewed my dinner all over my laptop!!!
No, I have NEVER seen a dog cook!! :D :D And I am sooooo glad that Frankie Meatball is thriving on raw. If I had MY way; EVERY dog would be eating RAW :D

fran