eating everything!!!

[sakirby]

so, i have posted recently about oscar switching to raw. but, i think there is another issue that is making his tummy sensitive. when we go for walks, or he plays outside, he eats EVERYTHING! you name it, cigarette butts, rocks, plastic, paper......he is on a leash, and what i have been doing is saying, "leave it" and pulling him gently away from the item. then, i say "good leave it." anyway, this works when i am constantly watching him, which i am but, he still gets stuff. and now, he knows that when i come down to his level, i am going to stick my hand in his mouth and take the clump of grass, hair, rock, whatever, out of his mouth. so, he has learned this and now as he sees me come at him, he swallows! i really don't want that! he has been throwing up rocks, passing them in his bm's. he even had a big chard of glass in his stool the other day. this can't be good. how can i make sure he isn't getting this stuff and swallowing it? should i keep him inside for a couple of days to let his tummy heal?

[franp]

I often call Dari my hoover; as in vacum. So I understand what you are going thru.
No, do not keep him inside. You must be vigilant; watch him and teach him. Dari is 5 and to this day, she will grab things from the street. It is like I do not feed her..Yeah right..

If you do not take him out, you will mess up his housebreaking as well. Training must be consistent.A couple of days will not matter. Just watch and get your hands in his mouth and down his throat if necessary. You will not hurt him.Maybe your hand will get hurt :o , but you will not hurt him.

[sakirby]

thanks judy and franp....judy, i never thought about using his give command to get him to give me everything he sucks up on the street. thanks for that. i have just been yanking him away from the item or fishing it out of his mouth. he has been learning to give when we play fetch in the kitchen and outside. so, i should use the give command when he inhales a cigarette butt or a rock too :) thanks guys! i guess i just need to be patient.

on another note, i am excited to go to my new vet. she, amongst other vets, doesn't suggest the raw diet but she is more educated and open to it than my last vet. she said that she sees a lot of dogs on raw that are a bit too skinny and don't gain enough weight while growing. what are your feelings on that argument franp or anyone? regarding raw vs. kibble, my boyfriend and i have been fighting over it as well. all his dogs, growing up, were raised on iams, and science diet (which i think are not good foods), so, this has been an issue as we are both very protective of oscar :) it is interesting how people react to change or so-called "new" theories in diet and care. i think i always lean towards exploring and finding the best, most healthy way to live for me, and now, my pets(maybe because of my biology major and love for physiology and anatomy). others (my boyfriend) lean toward the traditional, the way it has always been, the way it has always "worked." he feels that things are as they are for a reason, therefor kibble(all commercial brands) should be just fine. i am constantly looking for improvement. but, i also think that can be harmful, in that my search for the best, has maybe been a bit hastey with oscar. he has been on 2 foods in the last month and a half, and now i am trying to intro. raw. it may just be too much, too soon. he is a baby, eats random stuff, and probaby has a sensitive stomach. anyway, it is all very interesting to me, and when it comes down to it, i just want to feed oscar a food that doesn't give him diarrhea or make him throw up. thanks for listening, and helping :D

[Martina]

Fran recommended this book a while ago for info about pets: Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats: The Ultimate Pet Diet - Kymythy Schultze. I have not yet purchased this book, but it's on my Amazon.com wish list. If you follow my posts, you'll realize that I'm a huge believer in self-education and read lots of books about a topic. Amazon gives good reviews of books and has reader reviews (which I find more helpful). So, if you're looking for something to read that covers the issue of raw, I think this might be a good place to start.

I'm sure Fran will tell you more!

[gmacleod]

she said that she sees a lot of dogs on raw that are a bit too skinny and don't gain enough weight while growing.
I can't say that that has been my overall experience with raw feeding, I think dogs gain a good healthy amount of weight. Having said that I would say that dogs fed on raw tend to stay leaner than kibble fed ones. But I also think that that is a good thing, and most likely due to a lower amount of fat in the diet.

When it comes to puppies, I think remaining lean is very important. Overnutrition of puppies, especially excess protein and calcium, is strongly linked through veterinary research to the development of a number of musculoskeletal and growth disorders. And in other cases (hip dysplasia, for example) while overnutrition does not cause the condition (it is genetic) excess calcium and protein fed to puppies is known to exacerbate development. Put simply, it may not be the cause but it makes things far worse. And since a great many kibbles, most especially puppy formulas, are overloaded with protein and calcium in particular, I believe it is far healthier to raise a puppy on a natural raw diet even if one switched to a kibble when the pup matured.

[franp]

Many breeders that I know say Raw feed dogs do stay leaner longer.But; that is NOT a bad thing. They do get to thier adult weight and muscle when they should.

You know we used to feed all dogs puppy food;big and small. Then vets realized that BIG dogs (like Danes) were harmed by the over feeding of calcium and protien.So now they eat only adult food.

I believe that growing a little slowly (read less fat) is easier on the skeleton than putting the strain of extra weight. Having seen first hand a FBD raised on raw to adulthood, again IMO, it is the right thing.

If your dog is meant to be a leaner body type he will be no matter what you feed him. Genetics plays a large roll as well..

[Borgan]

A wonderful woman gave me some training tricks recently to help me teach Luna "leave it":

- In the house, put your dog on the leash and leave a treat or toy on the floor. Say "leave it" and walk with your dog in a circle around the treat/toy. Then say "take it" and lead them to it. Praise the heck out of your dog along the way.

- Eventually, you will get your dog to point where you csn do this off-leash, then outdoors, then off-leash outdoors.

It works well not only for dogs who eat things off the ground, but also food and toy agression/stealing.

-Brooke.

[Borgan]

And oh, yah, the raw diet/weight loss thing:

We keep Luna's weight up by feeding 1 tsp of Omega 3/6/9 with her raw at each meal, plus a tsp of peanut butter in her kong when we go out, plus 1 or 2 treats (1.5" squares) a day.

If we only feed the raw, without the added items, we notice she significantly loses weight within a week or two. But she's also a super-hyperactive dog (think Jack Russell on speed).