more ??? on raw

[sakirby]

so, i have bought the raw food. it is in my freezer....

i am really leaning towards starting oscar on it. i have read a lot and feel like it sounds really good and i like what i hear from you guys. BUT...

then, i went to my vet today. he dismissed it as a "fad" and said he couldn't recommend it. he said that dry food manufactureres have a name/reputation to protect and they wouldn't just put "bad" products out there. he said it can be very dangerous as far as ecoli and bacteria and that it could even make ME sick. he said he would never feed it to his dog and that he wouldn't recommend it.

now, this does NOT change my mind about feeding raw. but, i am just wondering if his claims have any merit? i have been worried about the bacteria issues with feeding raw but, as long as i thaw the meat, feed it to oscar, and clean his bowl thoroughly, shouldn't that be ok? just wondering how you guys feed raw to your dogs? thaw it, feed, and clean? is there some method you use to be the safest?

[franp]

I have been feeding raw for over a year.Neither Dari or I have gotten sick.IMO, common sense is what is needed.

Most Vets that are against raw are just not educated about it. Nutrition in Vet school is one course..Pet food companies have $$$$$$.

This is what I do; I get large rolls of bravo.I cut it into chunks of 3-4 oz a piece and put them in freezer bags and put it back. (Got a large saw and cut it FROZEN).Then I let it defrost over night in the frig as I need it.

Never leave any left over out. If your dog does not finish, then throw it away. (this is not going to happen; they scraf it up :lol: ).Wash the bowl; but you would do that anyway..And keep the unused , defrosted portion refrigerated.Keep the rest in the freezer.

Most of the breeders I know feed raw for years. And wean pups on raw.I believe your vet is just afraid of what he does not know.

I have yet to meet anyone whose dog or themselves have gotten sick...

Again , commom sense; use appropriate cleanliness. Store the food properly. Know where you are getting the meat , if not from a company..

[franp]

The other thing about raw; NO by products..NO filler. I know what I am giving my dog. NO Ethiquoxin..cancer causing chemicals..

Look on the labels of dry food at all the additives. Ask your vet about those..

It is YOUR dog to make the choice as YOU choose.NOT for him to try to intimidate you.

If after you research and decide to/not to feed, it should be because of real reasons , NOT because Pet food companies have been around a long time and have a "reputation" to protect.

[adora's mom]

Sharon -

You sound like you're having some of the same questions/concerns that I had when I first did raw. Here are a few things to keep in mind (IMHO):

1. Vets are not required to take many courses on nutrition. And the courses that they do have are usually either sponsored or conducted by large commercial food manufacturers.

2. If Oscar is healthy, and you/everyone in your house is healthy you should not have any more problems with bacteria from the food than you would if you prepared meat for yourself. As long as you defrost the food in the refrigerator & feed it within 2 days, pick up the bowl and wash it as soon as he is done I don't think you would have any problems.

3. The "current" raw diet has been around since at least the 70's so if it's a fad, that's a pretty long one.

Do you subscribe to the Whole Dog Journal by any chance? If not, it might be worth checking out. There was an article in a recent issue about the diet of wolves and how that relates to domestic dogs. I thought it was a great article and helped me get a little perspective on the whole raw issue.

IMHO dogs have been domesticated for so long that they have evolved enough that raw is not the only way to go, but I do think it is a good way for some dogs. You just have to do TONS of research and decide what's best for you. I know, a lot of help I am! LOL

[Carolyn]

I have been very skeptical about raw...mostly because (1) I haven't done enough research and (2) my dogs have always done well with high grade kibble. I was very surprised to find out that my brother (who is also our vet) has recently switched his dogs to raw. I had a conversation with him and he is perfectly fine with raw as long as bloodwork gives the OK. He has two Boston terriers who are 8 years old and he is having bloodwork done on them because of their age just to make sure they are healthy and have good bodily functions. I'm still not prepared to go with raw but am convinced that it is a great way to go with many Frenchie friends. Raw seems to help with some health issues which has my attention. My two have no health issues, as related to food, so......I am reading and learning. Carolyn

[quinnybear]

i think everyone has their own opinion about raw feeding. i myself cannot do it. the thought of it alone grosses me out. i am going to switch from iams to prairie kibble. rocky is just coming into his muscle. and he has a beautiful coat and alot of energy. but we had been feeding him our food until a short while ago. he only eats his food now if i put gravy on it. i dont have anything against raw feeding, its just not for me

[Carolyn]

Quinneybear.....raw is still a controversial issue with some vets. I, like you, am not ready to go there yet...but will continue to keep an open mind. This is what this forum is all about..... information.

Carolyn

[sakirby]

one more question....

i have raw bones in the freezer as well. how should i give them to oscar? give it to him, take it away, refreeze it until next time? give to him and let him finish it? give it, take away after a certain amount of time and throw it away? i don't know/understand the dangers of keeping a raw bone out for too long or letting him have it for too long.

anyway, thanks for all of the input on raw. my vet just threw me for a loop. he seemed so closed minded about it. and, IMO, a little ignorant and judgemental. (he is the same one who gave me eukanuba to feed oscar which IMO isn't good food). it is so weird...learning about all of this stuff. OH, the choices! i love it, and i love oscar and want the best for him. i just know that he is still having digestive issues, even on innova which i think is a great food. so, next it is to the raw and to see what happens. i don't know if there is a "perfect" diet for a dog. just as there isn't a perfect diet for us. but, i do know that i will try to feed oscar what i think is good, and what keeps him healthy. i feel like i have yet to find it. so, i appreciate all of your help ALL of you :) thanks.

[franp]

Openning a can of wet dog food and smelling that SMELL grosses me out.Honestly, premade raw is clean and no smell. No liquid that comes out of it like canned food. It looks like ground beef or chicken; because that is what it is..
I only wish my cats would eat raw; thier food is disgusting as well.

Sharon , as for bones;I give Dari a marrow bone to chew and just leave it for her. The Bravo blend I use has ground bone in it.Every so often as a treat she gets whole chicken necks;no leftovers there!

Yes whole chicken necks.. If the bones are raw they do not hurt the dog.I watch her and NEVER give her one unsupervised. If you are NOT feeding raw, do NOT do this.It can give your dog an upset stomach because kibble and raw digest at different rates.

Dari has a collection of marrow bones; she decides which one she will play/chew on every day. They seem to last forever.And every so often I get her som new ones with the marrow left in. She LOVES the marrow..

[gmacleod]

he dismissed it as a "fad" and said he couldn't recommend it. he said that dry food manufactureres have a name/reputation to protect and they wouldn't just put "bad" products out there. he said it can be very dangerous as far as ecoli and bacteria and that it could even make ME sick. he said he would never feed it to his dog and that he wouldn't recommend it.


LOL - I have difficulties to accept raw feeding as a "fad" when commercial kibbles have only been in existance for about 50 years... ;) And for the 50 years prior to that, commercial diets were mostly canned food and biscuits made primarily of wheat. Prior to that, of course, every dog owner was a raw feeder ;)

And as far as manufacturers not putting "bad" products out there, well there have been so many scandals in the dog food industry over the years, I have to assume he doesnt read LOL Just do a google search on "pet food ingredients" and (aside from manufacturers sites) you'll find quite a lot of information that you might prefer not to have. Here are just a few links: http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/jesse.htm
http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html
http://www.canineworld.com/directory/shoppersguide/adeadlymeal.htm

Now, none of those things are exactly new. But they're not old issues either. It's only a couple of years since phenobarbitol was found in several pet food brands in the US (phenobarbitol is an agent used for euthanasing animals - particularly cats and dogs. Meaning that it is likely that there are companion animal carcasses included in foods fed to other dogs). And it's not just the lowest quality foods this has happened with - here's a discussion that went on on Boxerworld (including link to the manufacturer's response) when phenobarbitol was found in Nutro's products in 2002: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34256

LOL - off that particular soapbox now :o

I've been a raw feeder for over 30 years (meaning I grew up feeding raw, I'm not that old). I have never yet had a dog (or cat) get sick from raw food. I've never got sick myself either. I just use basic food hygiene principles. I wash my hands after handling raw meat (I do that when it's my own meat too), and I wash feeding bowls regularly. That's it.

Yes, technically it is possible for dogs to get salmonella or other bugs from raw meat. But it is possible (and has happened) for them to get it from kibble too. Dogs, however, are substantially more resistant to those sorts of things than people are and such problems are very rare. I would go so far as to say restricted to dogs whose immune systems are compromised. That is because they have evolved over the last 75 million years specifically to cope with that sort of diet (as opposed to humans, who've been cooking for several million years). They have extremely short digestive tracts and much stronger digestive acids designed specifically for the fast processing of raw meat and bone. This is a direct contrast to humans, who have fairly long digestive tracts designed for processing of a mix of plant and meat materials, or to herbivores that have extremely long digestive tracts (in some cases even two stomachs) designed for the slow processing of exclusively plant material.

Anyway, dogs are designed by nature to consume raw meat and bones. 50-100 years of commercial diets is infantisimal in evolutionary terms. Dogs eating raw very rarely get sick, and can in fact cope with some pretty gamey meats without issue - they're designed for that. I can't agree that raw feeding is a "fad" since people have been feeding their dogs raw food since domestication (not everyone switched to commercial diets ;)). But fad or not, those who have gone to raw food aren't switching back in their masses because their dogs have experienced problems or gotten sick. Quite the reverse - most people who switch to raw are delighted with how their dogs thrive on this diet. And some of them are also vets ;)

[franp]

Thanks Gwyneth,I wish I had a camera when my vet saw Dari's blood work.After a year and a half on raw, Ms D's bloodwork was not just good; it was SPECTACULAR..

Again, I am not making a commercial for raw..Just wishing that people (Vets) would not be so obdurate and stuck in thier ways.Raw may not be for everyone.But researching and learning is the only way to find out.

In years past, we took our dogs in EVERY year for vaccinations; because we thougt that too was the correct thing to do.We are now learning, that is not the optimum thing either..Our Vets learned that as well.All things evolve.And we ,as responsible owners, must do our research and decide ourselves what is best.

But IMO, having a Dr that is NOT open to learning, is worrysome..What else are they not up on??

[MakiRoll]

Fran!!

I finally switched to raw diet!! i've tried Steves, Natures Variety and i'm finally on Bravo. Maki didnt take to the first two raw products but he seems to like turkey blend Bravo. Maki is spoiled rotten and is an extremely picky eater....all in all the owners fault!! (ME)

Maki licked his paws often when i fed him flint river kibble. Ever since switching over to raw diet, he has lessened his licking considerably and seems to have a little pep to his step. But this could also be because of his youthful growing age of 8 1/2 months.

Hopefully he and i will find the right balance of food for maki. Thanks for all the great comments and recommendations. This forum is great!!!

I log on everyday just to look at the pictures....these little critters make my day!!

[franp]

GREAT!!!! appicon appicon

Once you see your dog happy, it just makes the day brighter! :D I bet as time goes on, he will lick his feet less and less..( I hope).

Dari likes the turkey, venison, chicken and duck..Not crazy about the lamb :( which is ok, cause it is very fatty..

Keep us posted on his progress..

fran

[WhitneysMom]

Has anyone fed or heard of 'Far More' by Fargo raw food??

[MiamiOliver]

I have a holistic vet after several western medicine vets could not cure Oliver's constant throwing-up. We have begun to transition him over to a raw diet. She gave me a list of approved vegetables and meats that I feed him once every two days. We then log his reaction into a journal. We have also added chinese supplements to add in his digestion. She tells me that he could get very sick if we just switch him totally one day. We are going to start his raw diet completely in one-week. We are using Pete's raw diet food which comes frozen and pre-packaged. We take a serving size out, thaw it and Bon Appetit! In one-month, we have seen a difference in his gas and his skin problems have completely gone away. Plus, we learned that he hates green beans but LOVES boiled sweet potatotes. If wild dogs lived for centuries on raw food diets, than so can domesticated animals. The raw food debate leads into the whole argument over whether vets want to over-immunize our pets for profit.