digestion issues

[sakirby]

my poor oscar is having problems. he has really bad diarrhea and has pretty much since i got him. (over a week ago) i have fed him three meals now of mostly rice and a little chicken. it almost seems like his diarrhea got worse. now his stool is just a different color but, still just as bad and unpredictable. any suggestions? he has a vet appt. on thurs. so, i will have him checked out then but, in the meantime, i am not sure what to do. shouldn't the chicken and rice be clearing it up? :confused:

[Martina]

Okay, first of all - call or your vet, or better yet fax your vet with a detailed list of his symptoms. Include severity and why it worries you. Ask someone in the office to call back as soon as possible to let you know if you should go to the emergency room, wait till your Thurs appt (with recommendation on how to handle the situation at home till then) or maybe your vet can squeeze you in sooner.

Diarrhea in a puppy is serious - especially long standing diarrhea. Lola recently went through a bout of 'trash can stomach' and she lost 3lbs in 2 days. These dogs are too little to lose over a tenth of their body weight this quickly! Not to mention he's probably getting really dehydrated. Lola had to have fluids intravenously when she finally got in.

A lot of things can cause diarrhea in a pup -- new food, worms, anxiety (new home) or simply an upset tummy. Whatever it is, it is not OK for him to have it for this long without something starting to help.

When Lola had hers, the doctor told me to give her Pepto-Bismol - a tsp 4 times a day and to STOP all food and water to give her digestive system time to relax and calm down. But your little guy is still really little ... so I don't know if that would be a good idea for you.

Really -- make sure your vet understands how concerned you are and, if all else fails, get him to the emergency room. If you had a baby and your baby had diarrhea for a week - you'd get it to the hospital ASAP. For all in intents and purposes, a puppy is a baby dog and needs to be treated as a baby.

I don't mean to freak you out, but I'm worried. It could end up being nothing - just anxiety - but if it were me, I'd rather be safe than sorry!

Good Luck!

Oh yeah - be sure to take a recent stool sample with you so they can check for worms or even giardia.

[franp]

If this were my pup, I would not wait. Diarhea for a week is 6 days too long.Your pup could have Giardia or Coccidia; both are bacterial infections.

Your dog could be dehydrating. Call the vet and go today. If your Vet can not see you; find another vet.

[Carolyn]

Yes....definitely see the vet asap. Any new pup should have a complete exam by a vet even if there is nothing wrong. When I brought Abby home for the first time....before we even came home...we stopped at the vet's and had a complete physical exam (eyes, ears, heart, etc.) and a fecal test. Can never be too cautious. I hope your pup feels better soon. Carolyn

[Borgan]

Tell me if this is crazy:

I am a coinesseur of tea, and have successfully used it to solve my own health issues. One that seems to work in particular is a type called Rooibos (roy-boss) from South Africa. It's non-caffinated, purely herbal, blah, blah. So....when Luna had a bout of Garbage Gut, I tried to get her to drink water, but she wouldn't. I was so desperate to make sure she was hydrated, I gave her the tea. Of course, it tasted different, so she drank a cup and half at once! And she lasted just fine until her vet appointment when we got her some medication to sooth her tummy.

I'm not recommending anybody do this as I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but my dog is alive and well after some very serious tummy troubles...due, I'm pretty sure, to a very simple natural remedy. I think chicken broth might also have the same effect (I tried that successfully, too).

Would love to hear what you veterans think about this...

B.

[sakirby]

hi guys. thanks for your help and concern. i haven't replied because my internet was down. we did go to the vet, the same one we had gone to a few days earlier. oscar is now on some medicine and is doing much better. the vet said he was ok...not dehydrated or anything but, gave us medicine to clear up the diarrhea. they are calling me tomorrow with the results of the stool sample because they squeezed us in after closing time last night. but, they gave us worm medication just in case. oscar hasn't minded taking the medicine :)

it is strange...even though he had bad diarrhea, he has always been super energetic and playful. now, things are looking better. thanks for the advice. i am glad i went to the vet and that they fit me in. i just hope this medicine keeps things good. he is on bad food right now...eukanuba...and i want to switch him to innova when his tummy is better but, for now, i am sticking to the chicken and rice until he has a full day or two where he is ok.

again, thanks for your help and concern...you guys prompted me to just go to the vet, and i am glad that i did. thank you thank you. appicon

[gilazno]

whew...glad things are looking up a little, hey i notice your in philly...biggie and i are right in your neighborhood!!! philly suburbs..the breeder should have informed you of what food the pup was on so you would not have tummy troubles did you stay on the same food the breeder recommended? sometimes tummy troubles can begin with a quick switch of diet rather then a gradual process..IM me if you would like a second opinion on your pup, i may be able to recommend a vet or two in the area...
keep us posted

[sakirby]

hey gilazno...that is awesome you are so close by :) i live in center city. i have been taking oscar to center city animal hospital and it is OK. but, i don't get the greatest vibe from them. oscar was on eukanuba puppy food at his breeder. which in my opinion isn't the greatest. i was in the process of gradually switching him to innova but, then his diarrhea kept going on so, now he is just eating chicken and rice. i think the eukanuba may be giving him diarrhea too. i don't know. i guess i will just do the chicken and rice thing, then back to eukanuba, and then slowly again try to integrate the innova. any recommendations are welcome :) nice to hear from you gilazno.

p.s. i am working on getting pictures up of oscar. i just need to install photoshop so i can make my pictures small enough. he is so cute! i can't wait for you all to see him.

[sakirby]

thanks for the advise roosje. i don't know what is going on. oscar had two normal stools and then he just went to the bathroom and it was all liquid and rice. i feel like things just keep getting worse. i don't know what to feed him. i appreciate your advice about the rice. some others, and the vet said i should just be feeding him mostly rice right now to help with the diarrhea but, clearly, it isn't helping. the vet gave him worm medicine, just in case, and some other medicine to control the diarrhea. it has been two days now of the medicine and it still seems so bad. i just feel like something is wrong. maybe i should take him to another vet. he is still very energetic, has an appetite, and seems fine but, i just don't feel like it is normal. i was changing his food but, VERY gradually and other than that, i can't think of what it is. he has been with me for a week and a half. he doesn't seem that stressed. i am just worried.

[adora's mom]

Just a thought but Innova is a pretty rich food. Beckham, my non-Frenchie dog had digestive problems on it.

I would suggest you try another vet for a second opinion. Beckham has had lots of digestive problems, the vet has usually recommended withholding food for 24 hours (still giving lots of water) and then doing the chicken & rice thing. Along with Pepto & an antibiotic.

I wouldn't do any of the above without seeing a vet first, especially since your dog is so young - just wanted to give you an idea of what's been told to me for the same type of problem.

Please keep us updated! Hope your baby is feeling better soon :(

-Lesley

[sakirby]

hi guys. just thought i would give an update on oscars health. for those easily grossed out, read no further :o oscar had a stool sample checked by the vet, the vet said it was negative for worms. but, started him on worm medication just in case because sometimes you can't see the eggs under the microscope and oscar had diarrhea for 6 days. BUT, yesterday, in his stool...what did i find? worms. it was really gross but, i feel thankful that i noticed and the medicine is taking care of it. now, at least i feel like i have an explanation to why he was sick and now i can get him healthy again.

the vet also said that oscar isn't safe around other dogs or other dog poop until his final shots which aren't done for TWO months! does this sound right? he can't go to a dog park until he is five months old? i don't like the vet i am going to right now. not to say that he isn't correct but, i just don't get a good vibe from him. thinking of switching. i started housebreaking oscar today. he went to the bathroom outside for the first time! yeah! this was after taking him out three other times and nothing! anyway, thanks for listening and thanks for all of you help guys :)

[Martina]

First of all: Your vet is you dog's primary care physician and/or pediatrician. If you didn't like your human doctor - you wouldn't keep going to him/her. The vet is the same thing for your dog. Not to mention that a doctor is in a service profession - and you are buying that service. If you don't like him, LEAVE. Get another vet! I know that we're not used to taking vets so seriously, but this is someone you've got to interact with - make sure it's someone both you and your dog are comfortable with. I wish that I could give you a recommendation, but the best thing is to ask questions. I happened to get my vet on recommendation from a friend, and he happened to be a graduate of our state's best veterinary (sp) school. He also has several bulldogs, pugs and boston terriers as patients and he used to be a french bulldog breeder's main vet. He had no problem answering my questions and even introduced me to other brachycephalic breed owners. Yes, I really lucked out, but I think that any good vet should want to answer your questions and help you find the best doctor for your dog.

Second: Interaction with other dogs depends on the shot schedule. If I remember correctly, Gigi & Lola arrived at about 3+ mos of age and it was at about 4.5/5mos that they were allowed around other dogs. Basically Oscar isn't immunized yet and has to finish his cycle before he can safely interact with other dogs - and their feces. Dog feces is a great carrier of canine germs and worms (but you know that!) and unprotected pups are at great risk of contracting those germs. So make sure to adhere to your vet's advise regarding his immunization and health safety.

I'm so glad to hear that he's on the road to health - yay Oscar appicon

[EmD, MD]

If you didn't like your human doctor - you wouldn't keep going to him/her. The vet is the same thing for your dog. Not to mention that a doctor is in a service profession - and you are buying that service. If you don't like him, LEAVE.

Well, sort of. The problems with doing too much doctor shopping can be:
1) conflicting diagnoses
2) confusing care plans
3) medication interactions
4) unnecessary repeat testing
5) expense.
6) discomfort to your dog.

Let's say your puppy has a liver problem and they do a set of labs and an ultrasound. They render a diagnosis and give your dog some antibiotics. The dog doesn't get better, so you bring her back, they do another set of labs which show improvement. The vet tells you to hang tight, continue the antibiotics and give it a few more days to work. The next day you get frustrated and bring her to another vet. It is against the standard of care, actually, for vet #2 to simply rely on the other vet's written reports on labs and ultrasounds, so they will do their own. Let's say this vet disagrees with the original diagnosis and gives you another prescription and tells you to change her food. You do this, but you had forgotten the prescription bottle at home and the new prescription interferes with the original antibiotic without the vets' knowing. Now your dog has diarrhea and you take her to a third vet who now sees you've been to two other places and has a suspicion that you might be "crazy dog lady." This third vet is also obligated to do her own set of diagnostic tests. You have brought with you some literature you found on the interweb and you would like to try such-and-such a treatment. You are so frustrated and you tell vet #3 that you will not leave until your dog has a diagnosis and a care plan that is guaranteed to work. By now, though, the liver problem could have been made worse or changed due to medications or the new food and are the likely cause of the diarrhea. Now your dog has had 4 blood draws, 4 physical exams and three ultrasounds. Now vet #3 has to sort this all out. Not easy.

Just because you don't like what the vet or human doctor has said to you doesn't necessarily mean that they are incompetent. If you look around long enough you can find a vet or a human doc to agree with just about anything you say. THAT is incompetence.

I don't mean to offend when I say this, but I feel VERY strongly about this: while vets and human docs are in a service profession, it is not retail. It is not a "do what I say, the customer is always right" kind of situation. The "it's my dog, I know what's going on" or "It's my body, I know best" doesn't override eight years of education and many years of experience in pathophysiology, pharmacology and surgery. If you disagree with the general philosophy of veterinary education in this country, then find a holistic vet or something; don't even go to a "western" medicine vet where you're setting them and yourself up for a disagreement. But it seems to be the prevailing new attitude in this country to come into a doctors office, be it human or animal, and refuse to leave until you get New Imaging Study A or New Blood Pressure Drug B, as if it's the McDonald's drive thru. This will only have bad results.

All of that said, there are lots of s*$&#y doctors out there. If you have a bad feeling about your vet, or you think they're ripping you off, or if they have little-to-no experience with brachycephalic dogs, then by all means find someone new. But beware of the dangers of doctor shopping especially in the middle of an acute illness, and beware of being crazy dog lady.

I'm sorry for hijacking the thread, but I feel like this stuff needs to be said. I'm a human doctor and this is a growing problem and it's probably even worse with veterinary care where people are paying out of pocket.

[sakirby]

thanks emD. no offense taken. i understand what you are saying. i don't expect the vet to tell me what i want to hear. i think they know better than i do. the problem i had with this vet is that, i asked for an appt. with one of the vets (the one recommended) and so far, i have seen three vets, the last of which was the one i wanted. they all told me different things (in the same office) and they failed to see that oscar had worms. the last time i was there, they were very quick with me...seeming like they were trying to get me out the door. throwing a lot of info at me at once and not giving me time to react or make decisions. i like the people in the office, it is around the corner, and overall, i believe oscar is getting healthier because I found the worms. so, ultimately, things are fine. i do see your point, and in the middle of oscar being sick, i don't want to take him around to a bunch of vets. but, i do feel that they should have found the worms, or even done a stool sample the first time i brought him in. they didn't even want to do one. i brought in the stool and made them run the tests. this seemed odd to me since his problem was acute diarrhea. anyway, thanks for the adice. i do understand what you are saying and your points are well taken :) hopefully oscar is getting better now!

[EmD, MD]

Agreed, they should have done the stool sample. However, if it makes you feel any better, the life cycle of worms is such that they don't always show up on every stool sample and sometimes it takes several before they are seen. Depending on the worm.

I do find it odd that you saw many vets at the same office. It is nice to just have "your" vet.

Poor little Oskie! Hope he is better.