Stenotic nares

[Autumn&Remi]

Well, this question is technically about my newest addition...an english bulldog, not frenchie. But since I have a frenchie as well, I thought you all might not mind me asking!

She is an english bulldog, about 16 months old. She has extremely narrow/almost closed nares. I can't imagine how she pulls enough air through to breath! She makes whistling noises when breathing and I truly think she needs to have her nares widened.

Question: She has seizures and takes Phenobarbitol two times daily to control them. I have no idea regarding her background, I just got her from the rescue this weekend. She had bloodwork done 1 month ago...it was perfect and I do have the copies. Should I go ahead with the surgery even though I can almost guarantee anesthesia will cause a seizure? And while she is under, should we go ahead and clip her soft palette so she doesn't have to be sedated for it again at a later date?

Anyone with experience in these surgeries, I would love to hear some advice. She is a good girl (needs lots and LOTS of training...and patience!) but she is sweet as pie! I just want to be sure I make the right decision for her.

Thank you!

Autumn

[franp]

If her nares are that tight that they collapse as she is trying to inhale, then they probably need to be done.. As for the risk of seizures, you need to talk to the Surgeon and weigh the pros and cons..

You won't know if your new dog needs her soft pallate clipped until she is under anesthetic.. there is NO way to diagnose an elongated soft pallate except by putting a dog under..Most Vets do both procedures at the same time..

Is she showing any of the classic symptoms of an ESP? that make you think it is too long?

[Autumn&Remi]

I am familiar with most of the signs of ESP...I think.

She snorts and snores constantly, even when not sleeping. Her breathing is very audible sitting 5 feet away from her. She pants a lot but doesn't ever seem to be gasping or struggling for breath.

She has not yet hacked up/vomited foam but I have only had her for 2 days! :) I am taking her to work with me today....I actually am a vet tech so that is nice! I am familiar with the surgeries but everything changes when it comes to your own pets. Along with the fact that she needs entropion surgery...this poor baby!

Thanks!

Autumn

[Autumn&Remi]

Guys, I am about to have a cow. Literally.

So, I took Dixie into work today...not good news. Not only does she have some of the most constricted nares my veterinarian has ever seen, she has Entropion AND Distichia. We can widen the nares and fix the Entropion but he would have to refer me to a specialist to fix the Distichia. He suggested cryogenic freezing, cauterizing causes too much scarring and is not recommended. We can try plucking but if we cannot hold her completely still (which I seriously doubt we can), that option is out due to the risk to damaging her eye. Sedation every 3-6 months to pluck is out of the question. Not to mention the possibility that once we get her sedated and check her soft palette, I may have to be referred again to someone with a laser and experience with that surgery as well!

I sent the rescue an email tonight. Adding up the total for all of these procedures (this is a generic estimate based on prices I can find), we are looking anywhere from $2000-$2500 to get all of these things done (figuring in bloodwork, meds, vet rechecks, etc). The rescue had her vet checked/bloodwork/HW tested/fecal test/vaccinated/etc and everything was fine according to them. I am not willing to take her back to the rescue but I cannot afford all this surgery up front! Not even to mention that we don't know if she could also have a tear duct blockage, that if it is found to be congenital, it might require surgery as well to correct!

Panicking...I am panicking! She is so wonderful to have with us and I have to do what is best for her. Thank god I work at a clinic and we can do part of the procedures, that will help tremendously but still...in a way, I feel like the rescue should help considering we just picked her up on Saturday. *sigh* Any words of wisdom?? It is a blessing that I work for a veterinarian but I don't feel like that means I should be responsible for all costs. The rescue should have known about these problems and at least informed me...or had some of them fixed before she was adopted out, right?

Autumn

[franp]

Are you talking about Laser for the ESP? if so, I know many people who have had the surgery done with the conventional "knife" method.. and it was fine..IMO, no need to use the more expensive way..

I can only speak for the Rescue I volunteer with; the dogs we place are all "healthy" before we allow them to be placed..I think you accepted a responsibility with this dog and as such must be able to follow thru.. if the Rescue allowed her to be adopted "as is"..

If you had purchased her from a "less" than ethical breeder, you would be in the same situation..More than likely, an Ethical breeder would have given a dog like this for a minimal price with the full knowledge of all of her conditions..

Probably the reason she was given up was all of her health concerns..
I am sorry that you are faced with this predicament..What would you have done had you purchased her?I know that is not the situation..but that is the question basically..she is yours now..

[Autumn&Remi]

Well, I have to disagree with that statement and actually I am quite suprised that you said that, considering I am very familiar with FBRN and they are VERY forthcoming with information regarding any dogs they are adopting out.

My issue is not that she has problems that need to be fixed and since I adopted her they are my responsibility. My issue is that she was taken to the veterinarian by the rescue and had a full work up done less than a month ago. I just adopted her on Saturday...3 days ago! When I orginally found out about her and made inquiries, isn't it fair to assume that I would have been told of any health conditions/possible surgeries needed then? Even if I wasn't told on the phone, once I drove 4 hours one way to meet her and see if she would fit properly with my dogs...didn't I have the right to expect honestly from the rescue before taking her home?

I truly do not feel that I am expecting too much. And to answer your question about using an unethical breeder....its comparing apples to oranges. This is a RESCUE. Their job is helping place pets that 99% of the time unethical breeders are producing! Rescues should be giving more information than I need...not withholding info so the dog can get adopted out quicker! Geesh. Being dishonest or withholding information is a sure way to get dogs returned to the rescue!

I did not expect the rescue to be able to fork out the cash to pay for all of these surgeries before she was adopted (well maybe the Entropion since it is causing her pain) but they should have told me what was going on so I knew what to expect. Its not like she was free! Not only did I have an 8 hour round trip car ride but she was a few hundred dollars to adopt...and she isn't a purebred dog! So I easily have $500 invested already and we haven't even started medical bills yet!

I am sorry Fran, I am not frustrated with you...I just know how honest most rescues are and I feel like this one was not. And this is a huge rescue in the Chicagoland area...been around for a long time. I will be having every single surgery that she needs performed. When I contacted the rescue last night, the response wasn't very positive. They said that her breathing was fine, she is happy and healthy (she spent all her time in a crate...how do they know her breathing is fine?) and if I choose to have a lot of ELECTIVE surgeries done, that is fine but it is my responsibility. Elective? How in the world is Entropion or widening nares elective? Ugh.

Not defending the rescue or anything but they are not based in bulldog breeds...they are a Doberman rescue. Still, the vet should have known something was up!

Autumn

[gravy]

I have followed FBRN and read all their stories and I have to say I think
they would have handled it differently. They seem to do most of the
repair work before they home a dog. I am always amazed at the lengths
they go to to make their fosters healthy. That said I think this other rescue
is probably in over their heads and can't afford to get all their rescues fixed
up prior to placing. It is up to you whether you want to keep the dog, but
I don't think that all non-profits are as good or have the resources to
save every dog that crosses their path. If you do choose to keep the
dog, bless you, you would be doing it a great service. I, too think they should
have known and told you what you were getting into.
my 2 c
greg

[franp]

FBRN would have absolutely handled it differently.. As I said,no dog leaves foster without being "healthy"..All surgeries and issues being done or fully disclosed...

[Pink Lady]

I can't comment on many of the problems that your bully has or the seizure dilemma but my French Bulldog had soft palate and stenotic nares surgery on the 17th March. He has made a fantastic recovery. The stenotic nares surgery is very simple and you wouldn't even know he had any surgery except that he has proper little round nostrils now! The surgeon didn't use a laser for the soft palate as he has done done the surgery many many times using a knife and a laser and he feels that laser causes too much inflammation which of course in the throat can be deadly. My Frenchie snored but not constantly and he gagged occasionaly and made a squeaking sound through his nostrils. He was by no means a particularly bad case but when I did my research and spoke to a few vets I decided that it would be cruel not to have it done. I am so happy now that we did. It was a stressful few days and worrying few weeks but he is like a new dog now. It sickens me when I hear people say they adore the funny noises that their frenchies make, how can you adore the fact that they can't breathe properly, can't sleep properly and spend most of their lives being uncomfortable! If you want to ask any more specific questions about what to expect and the recovery then feel free to ask.

[Pink Lady]

Sorry 17th February not March!!! How time flies !!!

[Autumn&Remi]

Just to keep everyone up to date, Dixie had her Stenotic Nare surgery and her Entropion (lower and upper) done today. I am working today so I am here with her...she is in recovery and doing fine. She is pretty pathetic looking right now but I know in the end everything will be much better.

As for the Distichia problem, we plucked all the eyelashed today and we will monitor to see how quickly they grow back. Hopefully she won't have a huge issue with it!

Thanks everyone for your input...2 surgeries down...hopefully no more to go! :)

Autumn

[KarenTX]

and she did so well. Good luck with those eyelashes, maybe you'll get lucky! :)

[OliveOyl]

I can't comment on many of the problems that your bully has or the seizure dilemma but my French Bulldog had soft palate and stenotic nares surgery on the 17th March. He has made a fantastic recovery. The stenotic nares surgery is very simple and you wouldn't even know he had any surgery except that he has proper little round nostrils now! The surgeon didn't use a laser for the soft palate as he has done done the surgery many many times using a knife and a laser and he feels that laser causes too much inflammation which of course in the throat can be deadly. My Frenchie snored but not constantly and he gagged occasionaly and made a squeaking sound through his nostrils. He was by no means a particularly bad case but when I did my research and spoke to a few vets I decided that it would be cruel not to have it done. I am so happy now that we did. It was a stressful few days and worrying few weeks but he is like a new dog now. It sickens me when I hear people say they adore the funny noises that their frenchies make, how can you adore the fact that they can't breathe properly, can't sleep properly and spend most of their lives being uncomfortable! If you want to ask any more specific questions about what to expect and the recovery then feel free to ask.

Hi Pink Lady,

How old was your puppy when he had it done? I am about to have my 6 month old spayed and her nares fixed, and the vet will check for her pallate as well. Only thing is, my vet said that the laser helps with swelling when the knife does not? She also has worked on many Frenchies.

Confused,
Brinkley and Olive