some advice from the RAW experts please...

[jimchic]

Hey all, I have two questions that we need some help with:

We've been transitioning Nadia to Primal Raw and just this past week she has begun eating Primal full time....however it doesn't seem to be enough as she is telling us she is hungry later at night. Her normal routine is this: 4 primal nuggets in the AM and 5 at night for dinner, additionally she gets a kong with peanut butter or mashed potatoes (as an afternoon snack when my father in law visits and lets her and Jack out)..

Anyway, do the 9 nuggets seem enough (she is a petite 18 pounds)?

blend

My second question has to do with transitioning Jack to Raw. He is currently eating a blend of Homestyle Select (beef) and Innova small bite kibble) and is doing fine on that...but we wanted to transition him to primal raw (like Nadia)...however, the few times we have given him a nugget as a snack in between meals, he always "spits" it back up (to be polite). Any suggestions or should we not bother?

[imogene]

Are the primal nuggets 1 oz each?

I guess my question to you would be - has Nadia lost any weight since being put on raw? The reason I ask is because my frenchies are always hungry. It is true that some dogs need more - My Sam needs 18 oz a day or he starts to drop weight - It is a crazy amount, but he weighs 27.7 lb and is crazy active, he also gets an acidic tummy when it has been empty for too long, so I am very generous with treats and snacks. - My girl weighs 20.5 and gets 9-10 oz a day and does just fine, but she gains weight quite easily and is not nearly as active.

I am not sure how to get your other dog to accept raw. Both my dogs have been on raw since they were puppies. There was a post in another forum where someone was having problems with one dog rejecting the raw. Someone suggested mixing the raw with canned. Apparently Raw and Canned is not as digestively dangerous as raw and kibble.

[gmacleod]

Just on ways of getting Jack to accept the raw food: One possibility here is that there's something in the nuggets that he just doesn't like ;) Dogs aren't that different to people and there are some who just can't stand the taste of a particular thing (eg. liver, celery, brussel sprouts or whatever). So it is quite conceivable, especially if your nuggets have vegetables in them, that there's something he's finding objectionable. Whether he later gets over that objection is really an individual thing.

If it's just unfamiliarity with the taste/texture of raw though, then you might try lightly cooking it. Just enough to brown the edges slightly, and gradually wean him off any cooking at all onto fully raw.

If you try mixing it with canned food, do choose a canned food that is grainless. The issue with mixing other foods with raw is not that they're cooked, per se. The problem is carbs. The high amounts of carbohydrate that is in ALL kibble and some (most) canned foods are difficult for dogs to digest - ending with the acids in the stomach, which are one of the dog's primary defenses against bacteria, being utilized trying to process the carbs instead of dispatching the raw. This is what slows the digestion down, and increases the risk of food borne illness. If you choose a canned food such as Evangers 100% meat, or Innova EVO 95% meat, there should be no issues with going this sort of route :)

[jimchic]

GM, hmm, it was the duck nuggets that he tried, perhaps we'll try again with the beef this weekend to see if he keeps it down. If not, I was thinking I could transition him to the Innova Evo 95% canned line and then as you suggest...mixing the nugget and the canned to begin transtioning him over to a full raw.

Imogene, yes the nuggets are 1oz each. As to weight loss...I am not sure if she's lost any, but she certainly hasn't gained any either. I would say that she is pretty active...so maybe just increasing her daily portions by a nugget or two will satisfy her. You're examples of weight to food ratios were exactly the kind of info I was looking for....I guess it was just a matter of reassurance for me that feeding "outside" the guidelines is not necessarily a bad thing.

[imogene]

GM, hmm, it was the duck nuggets that he tried, perhaps we'll try again with the beef this weekend to see if he keeps it down. If not, I was thinking I could transition him to the Innova Evo 95% canned line and then as you suggest...mixing the nugget and the canned to begin transtioning him over to a full raw.

Imogene, yes the nuggets are 1oz each. As to weight loss...I am not sure if she's lost any, but she certainly hasn't gained any either. I would say that she is pretty active...so maybe just increasing her daily portions by a nugget or two will satisfy her. You're examples of weight to food ratios were exactly the kind of info I was looking for....I guess it was just a matter of reassurance for me that feeding "outside" the guidelines is not necessarily a bad thing.

:) glad to help - most of the raw feeders I know feed somewhere between 2-3% of the adult body weight for adult dogs, and 6-8% of current weight for pups - That did not work with Sam he has always been lean, and even though we have always been generous with his food, he has had a tendency to loose weight if he does not get enough food. That is why it is so important for us to keep a eye on his weight.

Oh there was an article in Whole Dog Journal that mentioned that dogs receive little nutritional value from a fruit/ veg component to their raw food, even though they benefit from trace elements supplied by them, so when we feed our dogs meals including fruit/veg that we should increase the amount to compensate. I thought I would mention it because Primal nuggets are a blends can be pretty high in veg (the duck is 30%) -also the vegetables they use are a combination high sugar (carrots and sweet potato) and cruciferous vegetables (Kale and Brocoli) the high sugar root veg can contribute to yeast overgrowth, and the cruciferous veggies can cause gas.

I prefer to use veg-free premade raw -that way I can controll what kind of veg they get and how much if any.

[jimchic]

Imogene, excellent tips on the meat to veg ratio...believe it or not, that is the reason we went with Primal....my though process was that it would act as an introduction to RAW and get us all used to it, while still maintaining a meat\veg ratio similar to higher grade kibbles and cans.

However, what I did not realize was the possible effects of the particular fruits\vegetables. With that in mind, I guess I'll start researching what is available to me locally and and make some decisions from there...


More questions to come....