Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth/Number of Stools

[yomshanti]

Hi everyone.

My Frenchie, Winston, who is one year and seven months old was diagnosed with small intestine bacterial overgrowth (this was discerned after various blood tests. FYI: his pancreas is NORMAL). In this condition, there is a dramatic increase in the number of bacteria in the small intestine, and this interferes with normal absorption of nutrients. The result is chronic intermittent diarrhea, and weight loss or failure to gain weight. Evidently it is not definatively known what causes this problem.

Winston has had soft poops for as long as I have had him but I didn't think anything of it until he got this explosive diarrhea starting April 22. It seems that this condition is usually seen in young dogs, who develop chronic intermittent diarrhea which gradually gets worse, and lose weight or fail to gain weight normally. Some dogs may only show weight loss and in others there may be vomiting. Winston has not really gained weight, and has hovered around 20.5 pounds.

Antibiotics are used at the same time as any underlying cause is treated and Winston did a month-long course of Tylosin. It seems too, that often, no underlying cause can be found for SIBO and it becomes a question of long term management. The disorder can usually be controlled with long courses of antibiotics, repeated occasionally if there is a relapse, and dietary management using a therapeutic diet low in carbohydrates and fats.

I am alternating a Raw diet with a kibble very low in fat, Solid Gold's Holistic formula. His stool is very compact and firm on raw; on the kibble, it is not quite as solid. But, here is my real concern. Winston poops 5 times a day. I am feeding him 1 3/4 cups of dry kibble, and almost 1 patty when I feed him raw because, as I said above, he needs to put on weight.

Is this abnormal to have so many stools? My other Frenchie, Walter, went about 2 times a day. If any of you can provide me with input/advice, I would really appreciate it. Winston is his normal, exuberant self and he eats like a horse. I should add that I sprinkle a half a teaspoon of probiotics on his food to help in nutrient absorption.

Anyway, sorry for the length of this posting. I look forward to hearing what y'all have to say. Thanks so much!

Warmly,

Diane

[Boykins]

Diane,

First of all, great explanation of what is going on with your pup. I'm sorry he's been sick but it seems he is doing very well and that you're taking great care of him and managing his disease very well.

Boykins, who is 1 yr., 3 mos., is on a potato/duck kibble due to food allergies. We feed her 2x/day, and she is SUPPOSED to eat 1 cup at each meal. I'd say between the two meals she eats more like 1 3/4 cup each day.

She tends to have 3-4 poops each day.

Perhaps, if Winston's body doesn't have the ability to absorb nutrients correctly because of his SIBO, he is likely to have more waste. Does that seem likely to you?

[gmacleod]

Many bowel movements daily is sometimes related to food allergies. In your guy's case though, one would have to suspect it's more likely his condition that's causing it.

Have you considered stopping the kibble? If it's a low carb diet you're aiming for, then dry food is pretty well opposite to that - it's possible to make low fat kibble, but not kibble without large amounts of carbs. Possibly a completely raw diet, homecooked, or a mix of raw and canned food (a good canned, without any grains) would suit better?

[manchie]

Well GM is right as usual. When i had my dogs on kibble i used to clean ther toilet place(veranda) 2 times a day. They had lots and l:eek: ots of stool on a daily basis and the smell was awaful. The reason for that of course is the amount of carbs and grains the kibble has inside.
By the time i turned to raw their toilet needs decrease by more than 50%. And the smell has completely gone. Now the appartment does not smell of dogs and sh*t.

So since you are saying that their stoll with the rae food is better why dont you nake the change to completely raw? You have said that with raw food the probkem with the diahrrea stoped. so you dont need any more motivation to go completely raw, since you love your babies.
Good luck

[yomshanti]

Thank you to everyone for writing and your advice/support. Winston is still pooping 5 times a day. I have noticed that the stools are much larger on kibble than on raw. So, let me tell you why I've not gone a 100% raw. My freezer broke and my landlord is in the process of getting me a new fridge. I was so upset because I had to throw out a brand new package of Nature's Variety patties. At $11.99 a package that hurt.

Anyway, I'm getting my new fridge today. I'd like to go totally raw but my concerns are about parasites/e-coli. Is the raw diet safe? The poor dude has this bacterial overgrowth so I'd hate to add something that might be potentially harmful to him.

Also, what brand of raw do you all recommend as the best. As I said above, I was using Nature's Variety Chicken but if there's something better I'd like to know. I hear a lot about Bravo on this site, but my pet food store, which carries a fair amount of brands of raw, didn't have Bravo because they said that the distributor wouldn't let them by smaller amounts.

I look forward to hearing back from you on the raw diet because I want what's best for Winston!

Diane

[gmacleod]

There should be no concerns whatsoever about parasites when you're feeding raw that's been raised for the human food chain. It is inspected at slaughter, and in any case is de-wormed regularly through its lifespan. Or to put things into perspective here - how many warnings do you see for people NOT to consume their steak rare? Or blue? Or tartare? Versus how many restaurants that'll serve it to you? LOL - the dog's risk isn't any higher just because he's a dog, so if you're not going to get parasites from consuming rare steak, neither is he. Really, if you had the slightest concern about that, there isn't much in the parasite line that won't be killed by freezing your meat for a couple of weeks prior to feeding (and that's even for wild game, let alone the stuff that comes from the human food chain).

Plus, the dog isn't going to be at higher risk because both meals versus only one in the day are raw ;)

Here's a site I think you might find rather useful. It deals with the many myths that surround raw feeding, bacteria and parasites included (10 and 11 on the list): http://rawfed.com/myths/

[manchie]

My first week on raw was terrifying. From the 2nd day i saw small little worms in my dogs poo and i thought that i was going to kill him. The poo was like moving. I did a search and i found that it was a part of detox. Imagine this. These worms were living in my dogs tummy ? I dont know the answer but they are gone now and i have no more diahrreas or soft poo.
Do you search first before you start cause i really mess up with it cause i didnt read much. Now, after 3-4 monhs on raw i am still running cause of a bad start. Basically i bought a bag of supplements and i was using them all togetherand my dogs were licking all the time. Now i through it all away and i am starting the elimination diet all over again. Its the 3rd time . Ok i know i must be stupid. DOnt fall into the supplement trap.

Also, Gm i am still afraid that if i do the elimination diet of one protein every day for 2-4 weeks that i am going to create problems and not give variety. My doctor keeps telling me that i am going to cause a problem with the dog if i do this. I told him that i have been feeding them the same kibble for 4 years and nothing happend. Soo, he says "yes but the kibble has all the vitamins and minerals in them. Giving only chicken its unbalanced."".
So is there a chance he is right??