Want to start raw - need some advice please

[Haus]

Hello. Lola has been having a terrible time with allergies lately. She has no fur left around eyes because she has scratched them so much, and twice we have been to the vet for eye problems related to the scratching (an ulcer and a scratch). We would like to try a raw diet. I know that we have a lot of research to do, but in the mean time we would like to be giving her one raw meal a day - preferably in the morning. Can anyone recommend something to start on while we research raw feeding? I'm feeling really overwhelmed by all the literature out there. Lola is 7 months old and weighs 21 pounds. She gets three 15 minute walks a day and goes to the dog park 2or 3 times a week. I know that she is not allergic to chicken because she has been on a chicken kibble with no problems in the past. Also, can we give her raw meat that has been frozen or does it have to be fresh (I'm really hoping the former!)? If her allergies are environmental and not food-related, will a raw diet improve her symptoms at all? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Deb_in_NJ]

I have not tried the raw diet, but I am reading a book that has a whole chapter on how to introduce raw foods into a dogs diet.

The book is "The Dog Whisperer" by Paul owens it cost around $11.

[citygirl]

I just started my two pups (6 mos.) on raw with great success. I, too, was overwhelmed at the prospect of starting the diet because of all the reading I'd done -- it can be very confusing. I didn't want to mess with getting the right ratios of meat, bone and fruit/vegetables, so I found a premixed raw option called Bravo. I bought a month's supply from my vet, but there are other outlets for purchasing it. There are other prepared raw diets out there besides Bravo, as well. One I've heard of is called Oma's.

My dogs each each just a little under one pound of the Bravo mix per day -- one is 17 pounds and the other 13 pounds. I started with the chicken and next month plan to go half chicken and half turkey for the month. There is a great pamphlet put out by Bravo that I think costs around $2 that helped me greatly with the transition. If you're interested in reading more about the Bravo products and want to see if there's a distributor in your area, their website is bravorawdiet.com.

Good luck with the transition!

[citygirl]

By the way, I forgot to mention that the Bravo meals come frozen. I just defrost a two-pound package each day for tomorrow's meals.

[Haus]

Thanks for the info. We've ordered a book called "Raw Dog Food: Making it Easy for You and Your Dog" and downloaded Ian Billinghurst's (?) book. We are hoping to go with fresh rather than packaged raw. We don't have a lot of options in terms of packaged food around here - Nature's Variety (which apparently some people have had problems with), Ultimate Diet, and Pets For Life is about all that we have access to. I bought some chicken backs today (labelled "soup bones"). Still trying to figure out how much she can have.... Is a 7 month old considered a puppy or an adult?

[citygirl]

I think of a 7 month old as still a puppy. It's certainly still in it's growth time. As far as amount to feed, the Bravo book suggests that you kind of mimic the amount you're currently feeding. They suggest that if your dog receives a cup of kibble a day that you start out with about a cup of raw a day. They also suggest that after a week to 10 days on the raw diet that you do what they refer to as a rib check. Place both hands over the dog's ribcage and if you can feel the ribs slightly, they're probably just about the right weight. If you have to depress your fingers to feel ribs, they're probably too heavy and, likewise, if you can feel ribs to prominently, they're probably underweight. We're on our second week of raw and I stuck with the same amounts in the bowl that I was previously feeding. The dogs have maintained their weight, so I guess the pound a day per dog has been right for my dogs.

Are you planning to grind the food up or just give the dog the chicken as it comes packaged?

[Haus]

Well, I just opened up the package of chicken backs. (Funny - Lola went nuts for the smell alone!) It contains portions that are about the size of a deck of cards - with meat and bones and a little skin. The package says "soup bones" and "backs and ribs. "I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to give it to her as is - bones and all, but the thought freaks me out. Some of the bones are really small!!! We weren't planning to grind it up, but I don't know if I feel comfortable not grinding it up. This raw food thing is scary!
Is it okay to just give her chicken with the bone in the a.m. for now while we research a balanced raw diet, and feed her California Natural kibble in the afternoon?

[franp]

There are a number of threads on this board about feeding raw...PLEASE read them before you start feeding...

Feeding a dog a raw diet is so very much more than just giving raw chicken...
Please read and understand BEFORE you start....
It seems like it is complicated..but it is not...and it is very important that you read...

If it were my dog..I would put that chicken in the freezer.. and read up...it may take you a couple of more days... but it will be to the benefit of your dog...

[franp]

Sorry, I posted too soon....

I would not feed part raw and part kibble... I would go all raw..
Your dog may not eat her kibble once she eats raw anyway...

IMO,.,grind the chicken...Frenchies can be gulpers..

There are a number of raw feeding lists that you can join...It does seem overwhelming..but it will get easier..
And again, I am sorry,, I posted too soon and did not see that you are indeed reading and researching...

[Haus]

Thanks Franp. I am so eager to try anything to alleviate Lola's allergy symptoms! But, I put the chicken in the fridge and will keep her on the California Natural until I have a better grasp of raw diets. Do we need to purchase a grinder, or will a blender do?

[franp]

You need a grinder that can handle bones...make sure that when you look for one , it specifically says it can grind bones...
I think there is one by the brand name of Great Northern or a similar name..
or you might try using ground meat/chicken and adding bone meal...the ratio is 80% meat to 20% bone..

[Chris&Eti]

"I put the chicken in the fridge and will keep her on the California Natural until I have a better grasp of raw diets. Do we need to purchase a grinder, or will a blender do?"

Better still, put the chicken in the freezer. Most raw feeders freeze raw food for 7-10 days as it kills/reduces most parasites/bacteria. You'll soon discover this and other precautions to take as you research the subject a little more. On that point don't forget that there is a free download of Tom Lonsdale's book in this thread (http://www.bulldogworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2251)

I started Eti on raw with chicken backs (same as your soup bones) but he was an impatient gulper and I ended up buying a grinder-more info about grinders in this thread (http://www.bulldogworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2025&page=2)

You shouldn't feed kibble and raw in the same meal but you can feed it separately in the same day. The raw meal will take around 6 hours to digest (much quicker than the kibble meal) so an AM meal of raw and a PM meal of kibble is OK -but- if allergies are the reason you are switching, it doesn't make sense to continue to feed one meal which contains ingredients that she may be allergic to-you're not going to see an improvement in her condition. In fact what you really need to be doing is an elimination diet as described in this thread (http://www.bulldogworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2109).

I've seen firsthand a couple of Frenchies with bad skin allergies respond quite spectacularly to a switch to a raw diet-so do persevere with this. If this is the direction you want to go-I would recommend you seek out a holistic or integrative vet who's going to support and encourage your feeding raw.

[Haus]

We're doing packaged raw for now (Pets 4 Life). Lola absolutely loves it and is having the most gorgeous little stools! Haha.

Today we saw the vet and she asked about Lola's diet. When we told her we had switched to raw, she gave us a little speech about the risks (e.g. that they've seen cases of salmonella from raw, that a lot of raw foods are not nutritionally balanced and can cause calcium deficiencies, that raw food companies can have less than safe processing and packaging methods). Do we have anything to worry about?

[franp]

Haus,
Please tell your Vet to (nicely) to stop parroting that OLD line...
I have been to the OmasPride packing plant... I doubt that many human meat packing plants are that clean..Chris has been to Armellinos; another company here in NY..
I DEFY any Vet to show any raw feeder a certified case of salmonella...Never have I met a raw feeder whose dog has gotten sick...

Dari is 6 1/2 years old..She just had a check up..her teeth are gleaming white; her blood work is perfect for a dog half her age..And her Dr is well aware that it is because of what she eats...and is thrilled. Her comment: she has seen too many dogs and cats doing well to think it is a fad...

Ask your Vet about the dogs that have gotten sick on commercial food; was it Merrick that just had the recall? How many dogs died??

Do you have anything to worry about? Nope... read and research. ask questions..Use common sense...

Tell your Vet to google Dr Jean Dodds; the foremost homeopathic Vet in America...who advocates raw feeding... See what the response is...

And enjoy those gorgeous stools...

off my soapbox..

[citygirl]

I, too, had my vet try to scare me about raw diets being fraught with problems -- salmonella and not "balanced". We agreed to disagree and I kept on with the raw. Today my dogs are in fabulous health (after an abundance of health problems at very young ages) and he's had to eat his words. In fact, I spoke to him this afternoon on the phone about their spay and he had to admit that he'd overreacted and that he's now researching raw diets because more and more of his clients are switching their dogs. Vets, especially those of a certain age, received next to no information in vet school about nutrition and what they did receive was provided by the almighty, powerful "pet food" companies. No wonder they react the way that they do about raw diets. They've also been incentivized by those same companies to sell their products in their clinics, so they have a financial stake in continuing to push the old Science Diet, Iams, etc.

If you're convinced that raw is the way to go, hang in there and don't be intimidated by your vet. I know it's hard. My guy actually told me that I was going to kill my dogs if I kept feeding them raw. Imagine how smug I felt this afternoon when he said that I might actually be right!

[imogene]

I am sorry Lola is having so many problems with allergies - Hopefully she will benefit from a raw diet.

Both of my Vets are big promoters of raw diets. I didn't know that until we decided to switch our belzie to raw a few months ago - and to my surprise our original vet started raving about the benefits of raw. Our secondary vet is also in support of a BARF diet, and both of them recommend a Canadian brand called Urban Carnivore. We have had Belzie on it for the last 3 months and she is doing beautifully. They have a great selection of whole animal meat patties, and fruit and veg patties, as well as great supplements. Belzie goes nuts for their cold fish oil.

Oh and the feeding amount can be confusing - on advice from another thread -and my vet we are feeding Belzie 3% of the weight we expect her to be when she is full grown. So for her @ 9.5 months she is getting 6 oz 2x a day -plus meaty bones (beef rib, tail, or marrow bones) 3 times a week. Her diet is a 65:35 ratio of meat portion to fruit/veg portion, and all her B.M.'s have been great for months. Raw feeding is daunting. I was worried that the amount was too much or not enough considering that she is still growing but giving her a bit extra seems to be okay -she is very high energy, she hasn't lost any weight, and has gained about 9 oz over the last 7 weeks.

Since you're from Ontario, I checked with the Urban Carnivore Website for ON retailers. There are quite a few. If none of the retailers are close to you I would contact the distributer directly to confirm where the closet place is. The supplements are available on line. We use the Earth Origins and the Greens, and the Oil. The oil is a great alternative to Salmon Oil for additional omega 3's - it's strong stuff so you don't have to use much, but as I mentioned our dog goes nuts for it.

http://www.urbancarnivore.com/ (http://www.urbancarnivore.com/)


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[tati]

Hey Haus!!:)

I feed all my 3 dogs with raw. Only meat/bone/offal . Each day I give them different kind of meats like rabbit, lamb, fish, beef, chicken, pork, duck, green tripe etc... everything. I go to the butcher or supermarket and buy it then I put all this in my freezer for 10 days before I will feed. I dont give veggies, only eggs and salmon oil as extras. And I am very happy because a few days ago they made a check up, well, no problem at all. They are very healthy.appicon

I changed to a homeopathic VET when I had problems to understand my old VET precoceptions to the raws.

Cheers! :)