to neuter or not to neuter?

[Kelly+Manja]

Sandi's letter has reminded me of a question I wanted to ask.
First of all I hope everything goes well with bugs. Im sure it will.I can't imagine how scary it must be becuase Manja has never had any serious problems. Let us know how it goes. :)

My question is to any frenchie owners who have males neutered and un-neutered. Manja is due to be neutered in about a month and a half but I am still unsure as to wether it is really necessary. I know about all the pros (less territorial, more obedient, less frustrated) but since the frenchie breed is so placid and gentle anyway (well Manja is) would it really make a difference to not do it?
I was just wondering how many people have beautifully behaved un-neutered males? Or on the other hand how many people noticed a huge improvement in behaviour after the operation. Im just not sure. :confused:

[Borgan]

What is the right age to have the females spayed?
Also, when do they usually stop growing and teething?
Did you guys (with female adult FBs) notice improvements in behavior
after all of these things were completed?

Thanks!
Brooke.

ps. Does anyone have a super-dominent FB?

[Pattie]

Here in the States both neutering & spaying are done regularly. People are not always careful about their dogs here & mostly this is done to keep dogs from unwanted breeding. It is considered to be healthier for the dog as well. There are health related issuses that can happen if the animal is not nuetered or spayed. Madison was only neutered after we had addressed other health issues he had. I actually only let them neuter him because he was already having hernia surgery & they could do both things at the same time. Since he does have health issues, it is good that he could not sire any puppies (not that he ever would have anyway). Katie, my dad's Frenchie was spade at age 5 or 6. As it turned out we had her operation scheduled & when they went to spay her they found that she had an infection in her utereus & it was lucky that she was spayed before this spread. Since both of our dogs were done later, I really can't answer at what age it is best to have this done.

[Borgan]

Thank you all for your replies!

I take Luna to the park regularly where she plays freely, so I think it's
in our best interest to have her spayed - I wouldn't want the fate
of Elizabeth Taylor from Sex & the City;)

[Sandi]

I have heard from several people that you should have your females spayed before one year of age since it reduces the risks of certain types of cancer by 70%. For males it also does mellow them out quite a bit. I had heard 6 months of age is the average for both males and female to be fixed.
Sandi

[Kelly+Manja]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've definitely got lots to think about now.
In Australia it is kind of frowned upon if you don't have your pet de-sexed. It's just sort of expected that you will have it done.
I'll think about it for the next month and a half (when manja turns 6months) but at the moment I suppose Im leaning towards having the operation done.
Also does neutering males stop 'humping' :lol: and excessive / territorial urination???

[Carolyn]

Hi Kelly. Here is a link that gives information about the benefits of neutering:
http://www.mythicaldanes.com/neuter.html

I hope you can get to it. It's funny how thoughts about neutering differ so much between countries. I agree with Pattie in that here in the US we struggle with so very many unwanted puppies and the push here is to spay and neuter. I will also say this...I have worked for a couple of years for a veterinarian and I have seen many, many female dogs come in suffering from an infected uterus. That being said...who wants to deal with the messes of a female in heat anyway? You have the constant worry about uninvited males finding their way into your yard! :mad:

I believe strongly in altering male dogs. There is a lot of discussion about when is the right time to neuter and neutering is recommended by some vets at a very young age. I happen to believe in letting the male dog grow a bit and we had Ferris neutered when he was around 7-8 months. He does not "hump" ...although he only did this once as a pup and has never done it again...thank goodness. :lol:
He still pees like a girl dog but so does my 15 1/2 yr old Standard Poodle and it doesn't bother me! Ferris, although neutered still has some male dominance in him. My bottom line thinking is...neuter while they are young and you won't have to worry about the possibility of neutering a dog that may have testicular cancer at a very old age. Those are my thoughts!

[Pattie]

Remember Madison was an adult when he was neutered, but in his case, it did not stop humping & made no change in his urinary habits.

[Sandi]

Actually neutering does not always stop humping. Humping is a dominance issue and females do it also. When Bugsy humps another dog I just tell him a very firm "Bug NO" and he stops. You should not let your dog hump. As far as marking, sometimes if you get them neutered early before they learn to lift their leg they will never lift their leg they will continue to squat. They still may mark because females do that also. I had a female black lab that used to do this all the time when we went hiking. I thought that maybe it was a sort of survival thing so she could find her way back. Marking is also something that you can tell them no on and they can learn to stop. Neutering can stop these behaviors but it is not a guarantee!
Sandi

[Pattie]

The one thing that Madison continues to hump, is the side of his soft sided bed. I have not really stopped him from doing this since it really doesn't bother anybody.

[Carolyn]

Pattie....that is so funny, and sweet that you allow him this "humping" indulgence! :p

[Pattie]

Pattie....that is so funny, and sweet that you allow him this "humping" indulgence! :p

Carolyn: Better his bed than us! :p

[MyRocky]

When Bugsy humps another dog I just tell him a very firm "Bug NO" and he stops. You should not let your dog hump. As far as marking, sometimes if you get them neutered early before they learn to lift their leg they will never lift their leg they will continue to squat. They still may mark because females do that also.


This isn't entirely true. Humping is not a sexual thing unless there is a dog in heat somewhere (like you have stated) but a dominance thing. You should not let your dog hump you however if your dog is in a play group humping needs to be done to establish pack order. Even if the play only lasts for an hour, in order for dogs to function they need to have some sort of heirarchy. Unless you see that your dog is humping obsessively and only doing that behavior instead of playing, then you should intervene and redirect the dog. Otherwise it's best to leave the dog alone and let the dogs work it out.

Leg lifting really depends on the individual dog. Some dogs, even ones intact, never lift their legs and others learn right away. Marking, just like humping, can be executed by both sexes. Neutering will not make these behaviors go away as they are not related to having testicles but are more behavioral.

Neutering your dog will greatly decrease his chances of testicular and prostate cancer. Really it is the best thing you can do for your pet because of the added health benefits. :)

[Kelly+Manja]

thanks again for everyones input. I have decided to have manja neutered after all. :)

[Carolyn]

Wise decision, Kelly (in my opinion). Let us know how Manja does. :) Carolyn, Abby and Ferris

[kenpat]

[COLOR=Black]Sandi's letter has reminded me of a question I wanted to ask.
First of all I hope everything goes well with bugs. Im sure it will.I can't imagine how scary it must be becuase Manja has never had any serious problems. Let us know how it goes. :)

My question is to any frenchie owners who have males neutered and un-neutered. Manja is due to be neutered in about a month and a half but I am still unsure as to wether it is really necessary. I know about all the pros (less territorial, more obedient, less frustrated) but since the frenchie breed is so placid and gentle anyway (well Manja is) would it really make a difference to not do it?
I was just wondering how many people have beautifully behaved un-neutered males? Or on the other hand how many people noticed a huge improvement in behaviour after the operation. Im just not sure. :confused:
[FONT=Arial Black]

I WOULD NOT HAVE MY FRENCH BULLDOG NEUTERED. BULLDOGS DON'T RESPOND WELL TO BEING KNOCKED OUT. UNLESS YOU ARE HAVING A BIG PROBLEM WITH HIM. I WOULDN'T DO IT.
KEN

[GigiMcKeehan]

Gigi is nearly 8 months old now and I am under quite a bit of pressure to spay her from the vet. I just read that spaying can cause a female to become more agresseive/dominant ,I was not aware of this. She is already a bully.

Yesterday I asked the vet why she would not be fine intact ,other than the risk of certain cancers. Gigi would not have the risk of anesthesia and I would just have to deal with the heat cycles. In the US it is frowned upon to not spay your female.

I am very nervous about putting her through the surgery.

Do others with intact females have an opinion?
Deborah

[Borgan]

I just went through that same "should I/shouldn't I" with Luna, and ended up having it done.

This is how it went:
- dropped her off and waited with her in my arms for her sedative to kick in so she wouldn't be scared when left alone
- picked her up 8 hours later; she was all sleepy and droopy and couldn't keep her eyes open until the next morning
- kept her in the house (except to go out the bathroom) for 10 days, and made sure she didn't rocket off the furniture (yah, right)
- now it is only a couple months later and her scar has almost completely disappeared.

I did feel like I was sending my poor little lamb to the slaughter, but the very next day, she was back to being herself and all was well in doggy world. The vet told me that when proper precautions are taken, the only animals at risk are those with exisiting conditions, like a weak heart. I'm sure your pup will be fine,if you do go ahead and do it.



Gigi is nearly 8 months old now and I am under quite a bit of pressure to spay her from the vet. I just read that spaying can cause a female to become more agresseive/dominant ,I was not aware of this. She is already a bully.

Yesterday I asked the vet why she would not be fine intact ,other than the risk of certain cancers. Gigi would not have the risk of anesthesia and I would just have to deal with the heat cycles. In the US it is frowned upon to not spay your female.

I am very nervous about putting her through the surgery.

Do others with intact females have an opinion?
Deborah

[fran]

I just went through that same "should I/shouldn't I" with Luna, and ended up having it done.

This is how it went:
- dropped her off and waited with her in my arms for her sedative to kick in so she wouldn't be scared when left alone
- picked her up 8 hours later; she was all sleepy and droopy and couldn't keep her eyes open until the next morning
- kept her in the house (except to go out the bathroom) for 10 days, and made sure she didn't rocket off the furniture (yah, right)
- now it is only a couple months later and her scar has almost completely disappeared.

I did feel like I was sending my poor little lamb to the slaughter, but the very next day, she was back to being herself and all was well in doggy world. The vet told me that when proper precautions are taken, the only animals at risk are those with exisiting conditions, like a weak heart. I'm sure your pup will be fine,if you do go ahead and do it.
Yes, it is scarey; but when you have a competent vet there is nothing to worry about.
When Dari was spayed ,my vet gave me the following statistics:
A female spayed before the first cycle has.5% chance of developing mammary cancer
A female spayed after the first cycle has 5%chance of developing mammary cancer.That is a 10time increase. Every heat cycle thereafter it increases exponentialy 10times.
Pyometria is high risk as well.
The risk of these diseases is enough , I believe to encourage spaying.And I have seen a number of retired show bitches,spayed at 3 years of age. None of which are dominant.
fran

[Carolyn]

All surgeries can be risky....but when you weigh everything out...spaying is giving your dog a better chance at health in years to come. My brother is a veterinarian and I have witnessed many pyometra spays. They are not pretty and with all of the infection going on the dog is at a much higher risk.

I was on pins and needles when I had Abby and Ferris altered. And I have a GREAT vet! They both did just fine.

[GigiMcKeehan]

[Both with Dot and Mo I have not experienced a character change. I was worried about Mo, because like Gigi, Mo can be a real Bully if I let her.

I have no regrets that I have done it. But I can understand your doubts about her becoming more dominant. Are you working on her Bullying, have you tried out the NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) program?

Roosje[/QUOTE]

Thanks everyone,

I am just very protective of this baby. I am taking a road trip over Labor Day weekend to see family in Tennessee and I find I am not able to leave Gigi at the vets for boarding. I thought I could, but I cannot do it. I will have to be careful in the heat that she does not get too warm. After our trip I will make her surgery appointment with all of your encouragment in my mind.

Roosje, I am working on the bullying with the aid of the NILIF program I found here. Thanks for the inisght there. She is not bullying me so much as my other dog (neutered male Skye Terrier). He is a gentle soul with her and tries to avoid her triggers if he can. Poor guy.

Deborah

[fran]

Deborah,
If you get a cool coat, that will help greatly with the heat. The chamios cloth , I find are better than the terry.Lighter and more comfortable.Another tip that Dari's breeder gave me was to get a cool pad. Try not to get the ones that have to be soaked in water; seems that the dogs don't like them.
I like to use an ice pack on Dari's belly to cool her down..
Drive safely and enjoy your visit.
fran