Proper Crate Training for a Family that works?

[BullBuddy]

Hello All, Well we havent got a Frenchie yet, But we are looking. Hard to find this breed in NJ. Anyway my wife and I both work. We both leave the house at 7am and my wife returns at 2pm. I know not to expect the puppy to hold his pee for that long so How to I crate train him when we are gone for that long? If i leave him in the crate, he is sure to pee and poop in it right? I know what to do when we are home, Read all the posts on 1 hour in the crate longer than his age. But what about when we are not home?

I dont want to confuse him with wee wee pads, but i dont know what else to do..

Can someone with experience jot down a schedule for me or tell me what to do for when we leave to work?

[franp]

First of all, most people that get a Frenchie realize that we MUST go out of our geographic area to find a REPUTABLE breeder....If you only want to get a dog from a breeder in NJ... then you may never get a dog.....


Frenchies are dogs that MUST have human companionship....As such ,you should consider getting someone to come in during the day to walk your dog...A pup CAN NOT hold its bowel/bladder for that amount of time..And should not be expected to...Especially when it is young..

I live in the city and have a dogwalker..When Dari was a pup, my schedule was altered to fit her needs...And I have a dogwalker who comes everday to take her to the park at lunch....
When she was a baby, I walked her at 6 AM. then at 9 AM, then the dogwalker came at noon...then I came home early from work at 4..then at 7 PM. then at 10...as she got older she was able to control herself...But that came with time,age and training...

These are not dogs that do well being left alone for long periods of time..

[BullBuddy]

I realize that MOST get there dogs from another state, I didnt say I wasnt going to do the same. I just stated that it was hard getting one in NJ.

I also find it hard to believe that everyone that owns a Frenchie has a mid afternoon dog walker and or leaves work early to go home and walk the dog.


So for the folks that do actually leave your dogs at home for a period of 6-7 hours alone. Please give some input as to how youve done it..

Thanks.

[gmacleod]

I don't like the use of pee pads either. If you've got the choice (ie. don't have to be gone too long) then I would never recommend that any one use them. It's difficult enough to train a puppy that they must pee outside without exception, made very much harder if you keep making exceptions! LOL

BUT: Having said that, sometimes you don't really have the choice. Crates are excellent housetraining tools, but they shouldn't be abused. And "abuse" in this context really means asking a pup to hold it's bladder in a crate for longer than is reasonable for his age. That just means that either you're putting too much stress on the pup's bladder and kidneys by asking him to hold on longer than is reasonable; or else that he's going to end peeing in his crate and then having to sit in it (which, as a regular thing, is inhumane - and likely to cause you worse problems if the pup comes to see that as "normal"!!). In that instance, if you have to be absent for longer than the pup can be reasonably asked to hold his bladder, then giving him pee pads or newspaper to relieve himself on is the lesser evil of all the available options.

Yes, it will slow down the housetraining. But that's better than causing damage to the pup's internal organs. And it's better than teaching him to eliminate in his crate.

Sooo. To your schedule. There is nobody home for a seven hour period. Your pup is going to be six months old before it is reasonable for him to be crated without an opportunity to potty during that time. Therefore, the best option is to gate him in the kitchen (or other hard-floor room) with some newspaper or pee pads to relieve himself on, until he reaches six months when you can reasonably ask him to hold his bladder that long.

The only thing that would really make a difference to that is if one of you can come home mid-way through the day to take him out. Or if you've got a friend/family member/neighbour/hired dog walker that can do it for you. If that is a possibility, then you would have the option of crating him without risking either his health, or teaching him to potty in his crate.

[BullBuddy]

Thank you very much for you honest answer.

[andi]

This was so helpful, thank you. I'm was in a similar situation but appears I may not be working after all, so I'd be able to be with him and attend to my pups needs. However, if I do return to work, this will be something I use as a reference.

[nat's angel]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to let you all know I'm doing better and thank-you for all your support. Took everyones advise and got another girl to replace my beloved Daisey. Her name is Ginger and she's a black masked red girl. Doesn't quite have the spit fire attitude of my other girl but she's sweet none the less. Will post some pics to the gallery soon. Question: she stayed dry in her crate last night-only had to take her out twice-but today she's soiled it twice when both times she was in it less than 45 mins. I don't give her too much room in it to do so, so what do you guys think is going on? I'm taking her out at least once an hour during the day. She is a little freeze baby and she doesn't like the weather outside. Any suggestions? As always I'm grateful for everyone's advise. Nat's Angelappicon

[franp]

Congratulations on your new pup...Ginger will heal you and help you...

I am assuming that Ginger urinated in her crate?? Maybe she has a UTI?? maybe she just did not pee enough when she was out? I know that Dari goes 2 or three times .And given the fact that Ginger does not like the cold ,she may going just enough to feel comfortable...

So , what I would do, is stay out a little longer.And praise her ALLOT more when she does go.. give her a treat as well ( if you are not already..) get her, if possible to go again..

I am so glad you have this little girl in your home and your heart..:)

[imogene]

This was so helpful, thank you. I'm was in a similar situation but appears I may not be working after all, so I'd be able to be with him and attend to my pups needs. However, if I do return to work, this will be something I use as a reference.

I work from home, and can be home to see to our puppy's needs - But she is still on a very strict schedule - right now @ almost 6 months she is spending 1 5 hour stretch in her crate. At which time she gets at least 1 hour of activity - (walk play, training). I am eventually going to extend her crate time - but she is still recovering from her spay.

The reason why I am crating her this way is I can be here right now - but that may change in the future, and I need to know that she is going to be fine, safe and comfortable, not destroying my house-without me around of 5-7 hours if things change in the future, or if I have to occasionaly leave her.

BTW owning a dog is not for everyone, and owning a FB is even more so. These dogs "NEED" you in a way that is unfathomable until you experience it. If you can't dedicate your time and a huge portion of your life to having an French Bulldog - be responsible and Don't get one. They are not a pet of convience -and to treat them as such is asking for trouble.

[maks]

in my humble opinion, these are not the type of dogs that do well left alone for long stretches at a time without human companionship. other breeds may be more suitable for that type of owner, but not the frenchie.

[miss heather]

I would have to agree...
I'm a university student, so I got my Stella at the end of my winter semester (so I was going to be out of school.... and have nothing to do for the next 4 months) so that I could completely dedicate myself to her.

even when school started again in september I arranged my schedule so that I was never gone for more than 3-4 hours at a time.
this term I have to be gone for a full 8 hours on Mondays and Wednesdays... so I take Stella to doggie daycare (which she LOVES)... but I don't think this would have been an appropriate solution when she was still young...

if you absolutely cannot come home to take your pup potty and have a little play session, then I would recommend having someone come to your home to do it.... IMHO it is simply unfair to your new baby to leave him alone for so long. he needs you!

that or, as others have mentioned, maybe a frenchie is not the right breed for you.

good luck.

[BullBuddy]

Ok understrood and what breed would you recommend? Boston Terrier? I just cant see that all Frenchie owners are stay at home moms or work from home..

[Miss Donna]

I realize that MOST get there dogs from another state, I didnt say I wasnt going to do the same. I just stated that it was hard getting one in NJ.

I also find it hard to believe that everyone that owns a Frenchie has a mid afternoon dog walker and or leaves work early to go home and walk the dog.


So for the folks that do actually leave your dogs at home for a period of 6-7 hours alone. Please give some input as to how youve done it..

Thanks.
Hello Bullbuddy,

Have you thought about or searched for a 'Doggy Day Care' facility? One where your puppy can be dropped off on the way to work and picked up on the way home? At least while it is so young? It would not be alone all day, and could learn socialization skills at the same time. Or, Maybe even a family member could help out while its young. If not, IMO I'd go with the wee wee pads or the doggie litter in the fenced off kitchen. Otherwise your going to be cleaning a cage and bathing a very lonely pup everyday when you get home. :eek:

[imogene]

I think all dogs are demanding, and while some breeds may not "need" people the way that Frenchies do I don't think it's fair to get a dog if you're not willing to address its needs. That doesn't mean that you can't own a dog and work full time- I know many people that work full time, but they hire walkers or use daycare, or have friends come in to make sure that their puppies are looked after. Older dogs are easier -and less demanding, but puppies are so needy. Puppies need stimulation and attention to be happy and pee breaks regardless of the breed!, If you can't understand this than maybe a dog is not the right choice for you.

[franp]

Ok understrood and what breed would you recommend? Boston Terrier? I just cant see that all Frenchie owners are stay at home moms or work from home..

No, not all Frenchie owners are stay at home moms or work from home... many work and have dog walkers..

Puppies ,of any breed NEED attention...whether they be Bostons, Labradors or St Bernards...The first 6 months or so are very important to socialization and house breaking..And that really needs to be done by the owners..It takes time and attention..

Time being the key word here.If you go back and read many of the threads about housebreaking and training, there is a common denominator..Ours is a stubborn breed..But puppies are all needy..They need us to teach them what we want from them.

So, if you are going to get a pup...it does not matter what breed...They all need us..Boston or llhasa..Frenchie or Dalmation..the first 6 months are rough.. It is a 24/7 commitment..And sometimes it is way more than 6 months.

Please think carefully before you get a pup...

[Bubudad]

I agree with you Fran, first 6 months is very important. I 'm lucky that I can stop working for Bubu and she is doing very well now on house training. It tooks me so long :-).

[wendykei]

Ok understrood and what breed would you recommend? Boston Terrier? I just cant see that all Frenchie owners are stay at home moms or work from home..

BullBuddy, sorry in advance for the long reply, but I've had this conversation recently with other friends who have asked what it's been like to raise a puppy as a full-time worker! I work full-time, but am fortunate enough to work very close to home and can walk home at lunch to walk Sidney. This made it somewhat easier for me when he was very young, but even then it could be a stretch for him to hold it--even at 3 and 4 months he wouldn't/couldn't always hold it for the 4 hours he spent in his crate from his last morning walk until I could walk him at lunch. (This meant bathtime on my lunch hour--yikes! Combined with sleep deprivation from 3 a.m. walks, this was a stressful period, I have to say.) So I'd TRY to look into having a friend walk your puppy or hiring a dog walker for the first few months until the pup is old enough to last from 7 a.m. to 2 p.m. I know that this can be very pricey (in Seattle it's about $18-$20/day for a dog walker and between $24-$29/day for daycare), but it's just for a few months until the pup is older...

Another option (if you don't know someone who can walk your dog or can't afford a dogwalker) might be to wait to get a puppy until school is on break for the summer and ask a neighborhood kid/niece/nephew who you know and TRUST to give your pup a potty break and play with him for a bit for a small fee or something like that. Again, this could be a temporary solution until the puppy is older.

If these don't seem like options for you, I do know plenty of people who work full-time and have raised puppies by gating them off in the kitchen and using pee pads, etc. I've heard it takes longer to house break this way, but my parents have done it and several friends of mine as well. Don't be too discouraged. The fact that you and your wife are only gone from the house from 7 a.m. until 2 p.m. is already a better situation than most people who are out of the house from say 8:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m or later...... I hope that's encouraging, but also gives you a realistic idea of what to expect. They take a lot of energy, so as long as you're sure you can devote yourself from 2 p.m. until 10 p.m. to a crazy puppy, I think you'll be able to do it.

[Mpup]

Hi - looks like you have had lots of advice here, but if it helps, my husband and I both work full time. When Molly was little we arranged to have her in a really great doggy daycare full time for the first two months. We dropped her off on the way to work and picked her up afterwards. It is a huge expense, but after careful consideration before we got our pup, we had budgeted for the full-time daycare so she would not be alone when she was so small.

Molly is now seven months old and we have a new system that we've gradually put in place. We have a small tiled room (pantry) that we've set up with a baby gate, bed, toys etc. - and out of a cardboard box - made walls and a little door to her pee pads. She stays home 2-3 days a week now and the other days goes to daycare. The days she is staying home I find it is very important (albeit hard) to completely ignore her before we leave (other than feeding, walking, praise for potty etc.), no cuddling and making a fuss over her and same when we get home for the first half hour. If you make it a big deal everytime you leave and come home it makes them so much more anxious. Our situation is not ideal, but she gets loads of love, attention and exercise as soon as we get home. The pee pads may have delayed her housebreaking a bit, but with that said, she is 7 mos. and 85% accident free.

Good luck with your baby. I know it is hard to find a fair solution when you are a devoted pet owner but also work full time, but don't worry, it CAN work :)

[Piperloo]

Bullbuddy - I currently use pee pads with my frenchie - she is 7 years old now - but for a medical related reason NOT for housebreaking convenience. I am home most of the day, but I was not able to crate her as a pup due to her medical condition and used the pee pads IN CONJUNCTION with taking her outside. It worked for HER. I don't know that it will work for every dog - depending on their personality and what's happening in your household as far as action, kids, excitement, how much freedom you allow it, etc. it may be too confusing. It will be something that will take an entire family's dedication and commitment to pull off. One person cannot do something different with the dog - it will be confusing enough for the pup already. Be well advised though if you do the pee pad / crate routine - THERE WILL BE ACCIDENTS!!!! Most likely more so than if you crate trained alone so you MUST BE WILLING to accept with this and NOT put your flooring first. You must have patience and NOT yell or hit the puppy. EVER.
Piperloo

[rebecca23]

I was glad to find this thread because I will be in a similar situation to Bullbuddy. I desperately want a frenchie and have done so much research because even more than wanting a dog i want to be a responsible owner and do what's best for him or her. I work 12 hour shifts in a 2 day 2 night rotation with 5 days off in between. Crazy schedule! My plan is to get a dog walker to come in a few times during my day shift and gate off the kitchen during my night shifts with pee pads available...hopefully my dog will sleep through most of the night shifts. I'm going to be working this schedule for the forseeable future, with such big chunks off between my work rotations i'm hoping this will work out. I feel like I could meet the needs of a dog but any time I mention my work schedule to someone they look at me like i'm crazy for even thinking of getting a dog! Any feedback? Am I being selfish to get a dog now or should I wait until I have someone to share the responsibility (which theoretically could be never! I might end up a single girl forever at the rate i'm going!:lol:)

[imogene]

I was glad to find this thread because I will be in a similar situation to Bullbuddy. I desperately want a frenchie and have done so much research because even more than wanting a dog i want to be a responsible owner and do what's best for him or her. I work 12 hour shifts in a 2 day 2 night rotation with 5 days off in between. Crazy schedule! My plan is to get a dog walker to come in a few times during my day shift and gate off the kitchen during my night shifts with pee pads available...hopefully my dog will sleep through most of the night shifts. I'm going to be working this schedule for the forseeable future, with such big chunks off between my work rotations i'm hoping this will work out. I feel like I could meet the needs of a dog but any time I mention my work schedule to someone they look at me like i'm crazy for even thinking of getting a dog! Any feedback? Am I being selfish to get a dog now or should I wait until I have someone to share the responsibility (which theoretically could be never! I might end up a single girl forever at the rate i'm going!:lol:)

Judy gave you some great advice already, but I thought I should remind you that Frenchie babies are totally needy for the first couple of months, and in your position you may want to consider trying to get an older pup (6 months at least) or talk to a breeder about adopting a retiree. I know someone that just added a 6 month English Bully to her family and she is not regretting getting an older pup one bit. At 6 months her new girl is already mostly house broken, has a good bit of bladder control, and is sleeping through the night. Our youngest pup is almost 8 month and we are lucky if we get 7 uninterrupted hours of sleep, but Sam is a bit slow. Belzie was 90 % reliable by 7 months :) Frenchies are the best dogs - so if you can find a way to make it work I say go for it.:D

[rebecca23]

Thanks for all the advice. I definitely plan on getting a dog walker and keeping one as long as I work those shifts! 12 hours is a long time! I will also look into getting an older pup or dog. I hadn't really thought that getting say a 6 month old was possible, so I'm definitely going to ask breeders about that.
Thanks again!:)
-Rebecca

[Boykins]

Hi there,

I just wanted to chime in with our experience as two people who work full-time.

Immediately after we got Boykins, I took two weeks' vacation and focused on helping her settle in and establish a routine. She was 13 weeks old when we got her, so this was between 13 and 15 weeks.

When I returned to work, I was able to bring her with me. I was hoping to be able to do this on an ongoing basis, but despite support and permission from my manager and executive director, I was asked by HR not to bring her in. (According to them, it was against policy for me to have her at the office, but there is nothing in the HR policy that specifically mentions a pets-in-the-office policy. Don't get me started.) In the end, I was able to bring her in for a full month, and I think that time helped us to establish a good routine.

From that point until now, we have used a dog-walking service to get Boykins her mid-day walk. She is out for at least 30 minutes each workday, and is often out with other dogs, which we really like. (Our dog walker is great; well worth the cost.) It's also important to us that she has that interaction with someone during the day.

When Boykins is at home alone, she is in her crate. She's now just over nine months, and we're hoping to transition her from the crate to the kitchen, using a gate (on order) to keep her confined to that space.

The dog I had growing up (Lakeland Terrier) could go all day without a break. Likewise, our friend's Pug can be left alone at the house for the full day. I don't know if there are any folks out there who leave their dogs all day, and I'm not sure we will go that route. However, as long as your dog has a sufficient amount of space, you may be able to establish a routine that allows you to leave it alone that long once it's at the right age.

My sense is that Frenchies bond very strongly to the people in their lives. The way Boykins reacts to seeing us firs thing in the morning, when we get home, etc., shows a particularly strong connection. Heck, she even cries when I leave to go to the laundry room and my boyfriend is sitting with her in the same room, or if he leaves to run to the corner store and I'm standing right next to her when he goes. (Not one of my favorite traits.)

These are wonderful dogs and we have been so happy with Boykins. Perhaps a Frenchie is not the right breed for you, but you may be able to make it work, too.

Good luck. Keep us posted as you continue your search for a new pup - whatever the breed.