Raw Questions

[lollerskates]

I've been feeding Lola a combination of kibble and raw. Timberwolf Organics kibble in the morning and Nature's Variety frozen medallions at night. My goal is to switch her to raw completely (i've basically just been waiting to run out of kibble).

So i've reached that point now and i'm going to switch over to only the nature's variety medallions. however, eventually i'd like to try to do it myself because from everything i've been reading that seems like the best option (for many reasons).

i'm a little unclear on a couple of things. when we talk about raw meaty bones, what exactly does that mean? can i just buy chicken wings and legs and such at the grocery store or is it something completely different? do i need to go to butcher? i shop at Whole Foods and their meat department is pretty good.

and marrow bones are different also, right? those are only once in a while, right?

also, i don't have a grinder. lola is about 8 months. she'll be able to chew the bones up right?

and do i just give her the raw meat with bone (whatever the meat happens to be)? and let her chew away? our kitchen is a linoleum floor (so elegant, i know), so no problem on clean up.

the main reason i'd like to do the raw myself is that she has an allergy - to what i don't know. and my vet has not been particularly helpful about the whole thing. it breaks my heart to see her little bald patches from scratching. but that's a whole other issue. i'm hoping if i can find one meat that she does well with and move forward from there, she'll get better.

so basically i guess my main feeling right now is : HELP! i really want to do this and do it right. i've read a couple books and several hundred websites and posts. i feel ready, but i'm still a little nervous. so sorry for the really long post, but i just want to make sure i get it right! thanks for any advice!

[lollerskates]

oh yeah. and i've also looked into Bravo because it seems like an easy and more basic pre-made option. something where i can control exactly what meat lola is getting without as much work for myself (not that i mind for her). but i know i can get it locally, so i've been thinking about it.

fran - you feed Dari that, right? and i think you're a big proponent of it. any suggestions?

[gmacleod]

Relax :) Raw feeding really isn't that hard.

Raw meaty bones are quite simply meat parts that contain bone. The emphasis is on meaty here. They're not bones with a little bit of meat attached - they're carcass portions.

In the case of a chicken, for example, every part of it is suitable for feeding your dog. You do not need to grind bones (or at least, not for most dogs). It is generally better that they are given whole. Then they will keep your dog's mouth in good condition.

With bigger animals, you have to select portions (eg. ribs) that are of a suitable size for your dog to consume. So you would avoid weight bearing bones from large animals such as cattle, for example.

The overall diet should consist of a variety of raw meaty bones from a variety of animals (chicken, turkey, duck, lamb, pork, beef, goat etc - whatever is available at reasonable price). Add to that some offal (organ meat) from the same wide range of animals at about 15% of the total - and you've got the basis of a raw diet. You can shop for those things wherever you like. The grocery store is just fine, although probably more expensive than a butcher might be.

From there, it really is just a matter of adding a few healthy additions on a periodic basis. If you want to feed some vegetables, it's just a case of throwing a small handful of spinach, some beans and half a carrot (or whatever you're making for yourself) into the blender and adding that to your dog's food. The occassional meal of fish (fresh or canned), a raw egg now and again...

Take a look at this site: http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes.php They've got some very good information there, and a lot of pictures too in the "recipes" section :) And more good information on www.rawlearning.com

[franp]

oh yeah. and i've also looked into Bravo because it seems like an easy and more basic pre-made option. something where i can control exactly what meat lola is getting without as much work for myself (not that i mind for her). but i know i can get it locally, so i've been thinking about it.

fran - you feed Dari that, right? and i think you're a big proponent of it. any suggestions?


I use Bravo and I like it... It is easy and cost efficient..There are 2 options; with and without veggies..I use the one without veggies..

It cost me about $17 a month to feed Dari..for that amount it does not pay to go to the market...For the ease of having it in the freezer and knowing that all I have to do is defrost it...appicon

[franp]

Oh and I got Urban Wolf.. She gets some of that every day or so...It is a dehydrated mix of veggies and suppliments ,so her diet is balanced.. She loves it and I am happy..

You can look Urban Wolf up on the web to see the ingredients.Allot of my friends use it as well..

[phoebesmom]

I have also been thinking long and hard about raw feeding lately. Up until now the idea of feeding bones has left me feeling terrified, until I read a post about a meat grinder somewhere on the forum. Right now I would not be happy to give Phoebe bones. She has had raw marrow bones, but she doesn't chew on them. She 'buries' them and lays looking at them for ages, then moves them only to re-bury them, and that is as far as she goes. Would it be OK to put, say, a whole chicken through a meat grinder, and feed it to her like that?? From what I can gather, ready-made raw is rather like that. I can't buy ready-made and would be happy to do my own, but what I really want to know is would that be an OK way to feed raw? Also, is Phoebe too old at 4 to embark on a totally new diet? Thanks.

[franp]

Carol,
Dari was about 4 when I switched her as well..

Many people grind whole chickens..The trick is to find the grinder that will do the bones..Not all will.

What one of my friends does;Grind the meat and then freeze it in ice cube trays before she puts it in plastic.. This way it is in individual portions... She grinds allot every so often...Defrost what is needed on a daily basis..

[gmacleod]

Would it be OK to put, say, a whole chicken through a meat grinder, and feed it to her like that??
More than OK, it would be excellent :) Include all the organ meat as well.

The only issue there remains with grinding up your own mixes is that you need an industrial strength grinder to grind bones that are larger than chickens... and dog cannot live on chicken alone. Bone is an essential part of a canine diet, so you can't leave it out.

But there are ways around that particular quandry. You could, for example, grind the boney parts of chicken and mix it with boneless meat and organs from other animals. You could ask a butcher to grind other meats for you (bone included). You could even buy ground bone and just add it to your ground up meat mixes as you would a supplement. Many possibilities :)

[lollerskates]

Fran - do you use the Bravo blends? or basics? From looking at the website, it seems like you have 2 options: the blends or the basics? The blends are everything already ground in a tube and the basics is more of a "do it yourself" option? do i have that right?

If you use the blends, do you just divide it into portions when you buy it and then defrost them as needed?

Also, is there a reason you chose Urban Wolf over the vegetables from Bravo?

Sorry for so many questions! I really appreciate your help!

[franp]

No problem.
I use the Bravo basics ;WITH the bone..and the Urban Wolf for the veggie portion..

When the Bravo is delivered, I let the tubes stand out for about 20 minutes..I have a saw (yes a saw.) I cut the tube into chunks and put them back into the freezer..Then I take a piece out as needed the night before..And either let it defrost in the refrigorator or on the counter for an hour and then in the refrigorator..CAUTION; NEVER DEFROST IN THE MICROWAVE. this is cooking ...

The Urban Wolf is a mix of veggies and I prefer it to the frozen Bravo..More convienient than fresh.. It just works for me..and more economical as well..

In addition; salmom oil and natural apple cider vinegar...
If I left anything out or you have anymore questions.. just ask..

[franp]

OOps. forgot.. I have an electric scale to measure what I am giving Dari..Her portions are measured...

[Bully]

So Fran, one thing I am still a little unclear on, the bone you are feeding with bravo is ground?? Do you brush her teeth, or does the ground bone keep them clean?
Thanks

[phoebesmom]

Thanks for the info Gwyneth :D . If I cannot find a large enough grinder, and I decide to go the bonemeal route, approx how much should I add to the meal of other meat/organs?

Oops, sorry, looks like I have been crossposting between this thread and the other one started by coppab. I got so excited with the idea of starting Phoebe on raw :lol: .

[Chris&Eti]

I bought my grinder from Bed bath and Beyond:
< http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=12868154 >. If you google meat grinder and BARF you'll probably come up with some other brand names/models reccomended or used by raw feeders that you can buy online. None of these industrial grade grinders are technically designed to grind bones- although they can and will grind chicken bones. The most annoying/time consuming part of the process is that you have to cut the pieces up small enough to feed it into the chute.
I did this for a year, feeding a mix, as Gwyneth suggested previously, of ground chicken with bone and adding a range of other boneless meats (and vegetables). I slowly introduced small quantities of other RMB's whole. A few months ago I broke the grinder trying to grind some beef ribs- a reckless experiment. However it prompted me to start feeding Eti whole RMB's and that's been very succesful- things are a lot easier now, less work and he gets a wider range of RMB's.
Lollerskates- since you already shop at wholefoods-that's where I get most of Eti's meat from, especially- chicken backs (sold as soup bones), hearts & liver, marrow bones, ground beef. Its reassuring to know that their products are antibiotic/steroid free and humanely raised.

[tati]

Hello folks! :)

I know I need to be patience ( and I do) to addapt 1 of my dogs (Tuffy) to the raws (he had problems before cause I did may mistakes on him) but I cant wait to feed him as I feed my other 2 dogs, it is very easy to feed them. I just buy what looks good and good priced at the butcher or supermaket and freeze it in appropriately sized amounts. They look great eating almost whole varieties of proteins - RMB (i give emphasis on the meaty) - also feed also organs, offal,green tripe, fish, whole eggs twice a week. I give only salmon oil as a supplement, 2 or 3 times a week...and thats it.

I dont grind meats or bones for them and dont feed veggies, milk, cheese... not anymore. I dont think they really need that. As a treats I give home made cookies that i make myself and it is very easy to make (chicken liver/eggs/very little pieces of garlic everything mixed and to the oven till is dry) they love it!

Ones or twice a week I give them big bones just for recreation and to keep clean their teeth. My 12 years old dog looks younger now and the 13 month one is doing very weel too. This is what I want for my Tuffy. For me it is the easier way to feed and for them it is way they use to be feeded from million years ago, its just the natural for them!

I started to open my eyes to my dogs nutrition reading macleod posts... appicon appicon