And the point of vegetarian diet is...?

[cookiesmug]

I've noticed lately that there are vegetarian formulas for dogs, e.g. Natural Balance has one. I'm a little confused, aren't dogs carnivores? Why would anyone want to put their dog on a vegetarian diet? It's supposedly for dogs allergic to animal proteins and dairy. But does a diet consisted of grains and veggies only provide sufficient nutrients they need? Or are they just aiming to capture this niche market for profit? (just my conspiracy theory :o )

[franp]

Dogs are omnivmores and can eat anything, but thrive on meat..IMO vegatarian diets are a gimmick.

Form follows function.. Look at a dogs' teeth.They are made for tearing,not grinding.. Eating meat, not vegetables..Even on a raw diet, the vegetables must be ground up for the dog to be able to digest them...

I share your conspiracy theory..

[gmacleod]

I don't think that dogs are omnivores. Certainly not in the sense that humans are. It's not just the teeth (which are those of a carnivore - note the distinct lack of flat molars for grinding grains and vegetable matter). The short digestive tract is one of a carnivore too... as is the complete lack of any digestive acids in the saliva that characterises omnivores.

Still, a dog can clearly consume some plant matter without issue. Fruits in particular are a natural part (a small part) of their diet, and they seem to digest very ripe fruits OK - so they're omnivorous to that extent at least. Vegetable matter is a bit more contentious, since the dog is incapable of digesting it on it's own (they lack the enzyme cellulase which is required to break down the cellulose walls of plant matter - which is something that should tell you clearly that this is a mammal that is not designed to consume plants). But they are nothing if not adaptive, and if part of the digestive work is done for them - by cooking or by pulverising - then a dog can cope with vegetables. Grains are a completely alien foodstuff though, and whilst in cooked form they will digest them, dogs have no evolved need of those carbohydrates at all. They simply convert them to fat - which raises its own set of issues.

But as for whether or not a dog can survive on vegetarian formulas. Well, clearly the answer is yes. It may not provide the same quality of nutrition that meat proteins do, and that fresh foods do - but in the cooked form, dogs can survive quite well on vegetarian foods. And in fact, they've been doing nearly that since the invention of kibble over the last century. Dog foods have improved in the last 15 years or so, but the lowest quality ones still only have about 4% meat in them. It's not so long since that was the norm ;)

[franp]

Gwyneth..
Dogs are omnivores in that they can survive on anything OUT of necessity...But carnivores out of preference and better health...Not like cats , who are Obligatory carnivores...If they do not eat meat ( and get taurine) they will die of cardiomyopathy.


We agree; you are just clearer in your explanation..:) thank you.

[lollerskates]

My brother's girlfriend has a pug and recently realized that she was bringing him up vegetarian! (which is amusing since they both are). She had never really taken a good look at the ingredients in the food she was feeding Bentley.

Well, she certainly wasn't meaning to feed him a vegetarian food (which wasn't labelled vegetarian, btw). So now she's switched it up (although carefully so she doesn't set his system all wonky) and is feeding him food with meat in it.

I couldn't believe that a dog food would be vegetarian with stating it! But I can definitely see them (the companies) trying to draw in more consumers (i.e. vegetarians) by using that. Thankfully my brother and his gf realize that even though they don't eat meat, their puppy needs to.

[EllieMae]

My mom used to run a doggie daycare and we once had a dog that refused to eat meat! No word of a lie! He would stick his nose up at all food that had meat, believe me, I tested him with like 10 different types of food and the only food he would eat was all veggie. I dont know how he knew for sure, they all smelled similar to me!
:lol:

[phoebesmom]

I am a vegetarian, but wouldn't impose my beliefs on my little carnivore friend - she loves meat.

[slakker]

I am a vegetarian, but wouldn't impose my beliefs on my little carnivore friend - she loves meat.

That's cool... I never really understood the "vegetarian animal craze"... Humans have cjoice of ideology and that makes sense for some folks to choose vegetarianism for themselves... but animal diets are based on physiology as gmcleod explained so concisely.

I have some "associates" that really are into this and no amount of objective discussion seems to disuade them from the view that "predator" animals are NOT vegetarians. Oh well... :rolleyes:

I guess you can make anything work, it's a matter why would you. :confused:

Hope this doesn't offend anyone who chooses a vegetarian diet for their pups. I'm just trying to understand the logical thought process.

[Carolyn]

That's cool... I never really understood the "vegetarian animal craze"... Humans have cjoice of ideology and that makes sense for some folks to choose vegetarianism for themselves... but animal diets are based on physiology as gmcleod explained so concisely.

Big kudos to you, Carol. I love my veggies but wouldn't wish peas and green beans on Abby and Ferris! :D

[gmacleod]

Well, just to balance out the issues, it should be remembered that there *are* a few individuals around who really are badly allergic to just about every meat protein source their owners can find. For those people, I imagine that good quality and balanced vegetarian options are a godsend.

However, vegetarianism for dogs is something that should be based on need only. It isn't their natural food - but when you've got a system that just doesn't work right (it happens) then those sorts of options need to be considered. For particular individuals it can be the best (even only) option available.

I just wouldn't *ever* recommend that somebody fed their dog a vegetarian diet out of misplaced philosophy. If you can't bear to feed a carnivorous diet, don't keep a carnivore as a pet. It's just not reasonable.

[EllieMae]

If you can't bear to feed a carnivorous diet, don't keep a carnivore as a pet. It's just not reasonable.

Well said Gwen!!!

[imogene]

I've know of a few vegans who were disgusted by the idea of feeding meat or meat based products to their pet. -to me this is simmilar to denying a fish water - makes no sense to try and raise a fish out of water.

It is good that there are vegtable based dog foods available for those that need them for health reasons - but I can't understand people that impose believes on their pets - for all that we exalt them dogs are just dogs and need to be treated as such.

[gmacleod]

Well said Gwen!!!
LOL - not wishing to be too picky here, but you know, Gwyneth doesn't get shortened/changed to Gwen ;) It simply isn't pronounced that way...

[imogene]

It's a beautiful celtic name. Slakker and I love celtic names. -Siobhan is probably my favorite, but you are very "fortunate" and "blessed" to have such a lovely name. :lol:

[ashley1135]

The point of a canine vegetarian diet is simply peace of mind for the vegetarian caretaker. Even as a vegan, I cannot support imposing my philosophy on a dog whose anatomy and physiology has wholly different requirements than my own. I have many friends that feed a vegan diet to their animals because they are so vehemently opposed to the methods by which animals are raised for food. It's difficult for me to believe that dogs can be truly healthy and reach their full potential on such a diet. Dogs do not have the capacity to make a moral choice about their diets as we do. Depriving them of their nutritional needs based on "a misplaced philosophy" as another member said, I think borders on abusive. I feed a raw diet and it remains very uncomfortable for me to handle meat, but that's what my dog needs and so I have to set my personal dietary morals aside when it comes to feeding.

[EllieMae]

LOL - not wishing to be too picky here, but you know, Gwyneth doesn't get shortened/changed to Gwen ;) It simply isn't pronounced that way...

:eek: SO SO SORRY! I wondered about that when I posted it, never again! :)

[noelle]

I cannot support imposing my philosophy on a dog whose anatomy and physiology has wholly different requirements than my own. <snip>

Dogs do not have the capacity to make a moral choice about their diets as we do. Depriving them of their nutritional needs based on "a misplaced philosophy" as another member said, I think borders on abusive. I feed a raw diet and it remains very uncomfortable for me to handle meat, but that's what my dog needs and so I have to set my personal dietary morals aside when it comes to feeding.

very well put, and a big "me too", on all fronts (except that i am not vegan--i've been a vegetarian for 20 years, though). it's a bit of a sacrifice in several ways for me to prepare the biscuit's raw meals, but i do it gladly, because i know he's more healthy for it.

[cookiesmug]

Just a quick sidetrack comment... :rolleyes:
When I was a kid our neighbor had a dog (not sure of the breed) that would actually much rather prefer to eat white bread than a piece of meat. Talk about bizzare...

[ashley1135]

Ha! :lol: That's funny. I guess dogs, like us, often prefer the foods they don't need over the ones they should be eating. I'd sit around and eat peanut butter all day if I could. When I was a child our family had a brittany spaniel that would pick raspberries off thorny vines and loved watermelon. If I gave her a steak she probably would have ignored it. I love how animals are such individuals w/ their funny quirks.