Lets start again?

[tati]

Hello,

Tuffy is ready, he has no more digest problems! He is doing very well eating kibble. I think its the time to go back to the meat and bones again. appicon

gmacleod, could you please help us? I am a bit scared after all that troubles we had with his digestion.

Thanks! :)

[tati]

Just an information: He is eating only kibble since I stoped to feed him raw.

Ciao!

[gmacleod]

Hi Tati :)

Sure, I'll help. What else are godmothers for? LOL

I guess everything went back to normal with his tummy upset and stools? Oh - and what is the main meat in the kibble. I recall you posted about one that was based on chicken, I think?

[tati]

Hi gmacleod! :)

Thank you! Well, if Tuffy was in UK, probably as a good godmother as I know you are, every Sunday you would go with him to the park! hmmmm.. or maybe to the... hehehe church! :lol:

He is doing very well, his stools looks normal again, no gases and no vomits...He plays alot and sleep as an angel. appicon

Yes, the kibble is based in chicken. The first 5 ingredients: chicken meat flour - chicken meat - brown rice - chicken fat - bicalcic fosfate...

What is easy to me to buy and not expensive is:
chicken: carcasses, necks, breast, wings, quarters, hearts, liver and guizard.(whole chicken)
beef: muscle, neck, ribs, heart, tongue, oxtail, liver, kidney, green tripe.
pork: legs, shoulder, heart, liver and ribs
lamb: same pork
fish: sardines and many tropical fishes.

Obs: A week ago I tried to give him (just testing) a flat tspoon of natural yoghurt and then his next stool got softer. I think his body does not like it much.

Well, I am waiting for you!:D

Thanks a lot! :)

[gmacleod]

Great :)

Well, since he has been eating a chicken-based kibble without any problems, I think we can safely conclude that he isn't allergic to chicken - irrespective that he didn't do too well with it raw previously. So that's a reasonable meat to start with.

And since his stool got looser with a taste of yoghurt while on the kibble, it's probably reasonable to conclude that he won't do well if that's added to his raw diet (possibly he's lactose intolerant and shouldn't have dairy products. That's not unusual. No problem though - we can just leave that out, it's not essential).

Do you still have the meat grinder? Since he had a little trouble with digesting bones before, it might be a good idea to start him out with ground meat. Ground whole chickens would be good :) Though removing some of the skin prior to grinding may also be a good idea. Dogs do need some fat in their diet, but limiting that in the initial stages will help to determine if it's the fat content that he has trouble with.

Proceeding slowly is probably the best plan, so how about starting out with the ground chicken for one meal per day? If he does OK with that, we can start to look at adding some other meats into the diet, and then phasing out the kibble. All on a nice gradual basis to avoid any tummy upsets if possible.

[tati]

Hello again :)


"...Ground whole chickens would be good Though removing some of the skin prior to grinding may also be a good idea...."


Should I grind the entire chicken? Everything from inside like organs too? :confused:

Thank you!

[gmacleod]

Yep :) That way he should be getting a correct amount of bone in his meals. There aren't a lot of internal organs in a chicken, so I don't think it's going to be too rich for him. It's a good balanced meal.

The only thing that I'd remove is some (not all) of the skin - the fattiest bits, which are probably on the underside of the chicken. Whatever pulls off easily. Dogs need some amount of fat in their diet, but too much of it does cause tummy upsets.

[tati]

Dear Godmother :)

My mom did everything like you said, she gave me whole chicken ground!!

Just to you to know I dont want to eat more then twice a day anymore, I eat only in the mornings and evenings. Last morning I got 150g of ground chicken and in the dinner I ate kibble. Maybe is too early to celebrate but untill now I am felling very good, I didnt vomit, no gases, I am playing a lot with my 2 brothers ....But no poo till now. My mother is asking if it is ok that I didnt poo today...?!:o

Can I be feeding like that for now or do you have another suggestion?

I want you know that you are important in my life because you are helping me a lot, we both, my mom and I knew ZERO about raw food for dogs. appicon

Kisses from,

Tuffy and mommy

[gmacleod]

Hey Tuffy, it sounds like you and your mommy are doing just great :) Don't worry about the poop just yet. Different food gets digested at different times, so it's normal enough for there to be a change in timing. It'll happen eventually ;)

I think eating twice a day is just fine at this age too. When the pup gets to the point that she no longer needs three or four meals a day, and lets you know it, then going to two meals is the right thing to do.

Raw for breakfast and kibble for dinner seems a good idea at this stage. If she's happy eating both, then any tummy sensitivities to the switch should be minimised that way. If we keep things nice and gradual, hopefully the kibble can be phased out completely in a few weeks. No hurry though ;) Let's see how she does on the current format of alternate meals of whole ground chicken and kibble - and perhaps get another meat type or two introduced before weaning the kibble out of the diet altogether :)

[tati]

Hi!!

Tuffy's poop was like 2 kind of stool in the same amount ... it started a bit creamy then it changed to a harder stool :eek: . Well, I think it is normal since he got 2 different kind of meal. :)

If he does good with ground chicken and kibble I will keep feeding him a week like that. Is it ok? I will update you about Tuffy and will go back here for the next change.

:confused: I have a new question, it is about my 12 years old dog, he is doing very well on raws but he is a bit lazy for bones. But he has no problem with chicken necks, he is not lazy for that and he likes it. Is chicken neck a good bone? or only cartilage in it?

Thanks for everything!

[gmacleod]

OK - well, that sounds pretty good. We can keep the kibble portion of her diet for a while yet, then phase it out gradually and hopefully will be able to avoid any loose stools this time.

I think the ground chicken for a week or so is fine. Then maybe we can add another ground meat into the diet. Perhaps beef, since that is usually less fatty than lamb, and the ground mix can be a combination of muscle meat and ribs.

For your older dog, chicken necks are actually a very good bone. The only "issue" is that they don't provide much chewing, so won't do a lot for teeth cleaning. So they're a good meal, fine from the nutrition perspective - they just won't do the dental work that larger bones would. But that's OK - you can either give her larger bones for recreational chewing, or brush her teeth a couple of times a week.

[tati]

He is doing perfect with ground whole chicken , no problem at all. appicon

OK, then in a week or so I will start to feed beef... Is it not a beef rib too dense since I am feeding him only ground chicken bones? I can not grind dense bones in the grinder I have, it is not strong enough. :(

[gmacleod]

Hmmm. I was thinking of the short ends of the ribs... which are generally a fairly small bone. But if they're too hard for the grinder, perhaps we would need to rethink.

He still needs bone in his meals to keep his stools firm, so I wouldn't be too inclined to feed him muscle meat only. The answer might just be to add some beef muscle meat to his ground chicken and feed the two meats mixed (still kibble for dinner though).

That will still give him the benefit of another meat in his diet, but we don't need to deal with the bone issue just yet. This is all just for the sake of taking things very very gradually - eventually we'd hope to have Tuffy eating beef ribs and oxtail on its own, bones included. But that can wait until he's well adjusted onto raw and a variety of meats. Once that is done, we can start introducing some whole bones like the ribs.

For now though, we can stick with what is grindable and just slowly add new things in that way.

[tati]

gmacleod, In 2 days I will make the changes. I will keep feeding him the ground whole chicken adding beef muscle in it. I got it! :) Ground whole chicken as the bone base for now. I will go back into this thread to let you know about the changes.

Judy, you are right!! Observing how my dogs react at each new addition I make on their meals I am starting to understand how to handle good with the options I have. Of course I (and Tuffy too) also agree that gmacleod is a great person helping us and sharing her knowledge! appicon

Thanks people! ;)

[gmacleod]

I...just to abide by the rules:lol:, right?
LOL - yes, exactly that ;) It makes my life so much easier (and everyone else's much more pleasant). And that's what keeps a forum like this one running well and able to be the community of information sharing we all want it to be.

You're both very welcome. I'm very happy to help where I can, and to sympathise when I can't :p

[tati]

Hello!! gmacleod, we are very happy! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! appicon

Last morning Tuffy got his second meal with beef muscle and ground whole chicken. fiestaicon

Yesterday I gave him 50% of GWC and 50% BM as breakfast / kibble in the evening. The only thing I changed today was that I gave him a little bit more beef muscle than ground whole chicken.

His poop looks normal, he is doing very well.... no gases, nothing is wrong. appicon

Keep him on this for how long and when I change what kind of meat we will give to him?

Hugs from the most beautifull frenchie from Brazil and his mom!!

[gmacleod]

Outstanding :D Good to hear he's still doing so well :)

OK, so we have whole ground chicken that he's eating just fine, and some beef muscle meat added in there that is also fine.

Going ultra-slowly seems to be working well, so let's stick with that. It doesn't matter if it takes a long time to get him settled on raw. It's much better than having to deal with any upset tummies ;) Sooo - how about keeping him on the ground whole chicken/beef mix for about a week in total? To what you're currently giving him, you could add a small amount of beef offal (heart, kidney or tripe - liver is very rich, so if you add that, only add a little bit). We're still just on two types of meat (ie. two animals) so there shouldn't be any issues from an allergy perspective. But the addition of a little offal at this stage will help to keep his diet balanced. It doesn't have to be very much - just about 10% of the total beef in the mix should be just fine.

If there are any loose stools, the simple fix is to cut the offal out. But there probably won't be - he seems to be doing very nicely :)

And if everything keeps going nicely, we can choose another meat to test out next week. Lamb might be a good choice :) The only thing we might need to watch with that one is the fat content. Lamb can be quite a fatty meat, so doing it the same way as for the beef - mixing it with the whole ground chicken - could be the best way to go. How would your grinder do with lamb ribs? Are they too big? If they are, then it'll just have to be muscle meat added to the ground chicken - exactly the same as you did with the beef. If the grinder will cope with lamb ribs though, then including about a third of his total lamb portion as ribs would probably be a good idea - keeps the bone content of his food at a good level.

If that all works well, giving him a little bit of lamb offal should probably be the next step, then we can try out some pork. And after that, perhaps it's time to start giving him some small bones whole again, and see how his system copes with them. So far, what we're finding is that he's fine with raw meat, and he's fine with ground bone. What we'll find out then is how he copes with whole bones that he has to chew himself. And lastly, we can start to phase out the kibble. There's absolutely no rush though - going very slowly with each new thing is much better than gong too quickly :)

[tati]

He is still doing very well, I'll keep him on gwc/bm for a couple days more and slowly I'll add green tripe then offal... OK!

Well, it is a pity but my grinder can only grind chicken bones :( Should I keep feeding ground whole chicken next week too or something else as a bone?

gmacleod, last week I did buy pork (meat/bone) in a kind of sale, so, my freezer is full of it. For the next week, instead of lamb could I change for pork? Of course I can buy lamb if you think it is better for him.

Thanks! :)

[gmacleod]

If you've got lots of pork, then lets go with pork :) It really doesn't matter which new meat it is.

I think keeping on feeding the ground chicken next week is a good idea - since that's the only bone we can grind. Then he's still getting bone in his diet (if there isn't enough bone, then his stools may get loose). He can eat the two meats mixed, exactly as you did when adding beef - only this time it will be pork.

Just because it was digesting whole bones that he had the trouble with before, I'd suggest that we leave the whole bones until last to deal with. Then he'll be well adapted to raw food AND we'll know which meats he can eat with no trouble. That way, when it comes to giving him the whole bones, if he has any tummy troubles at all, we'll know for certain that the problem is the whole bones, and not the new meat :)

[Chris&Eti]

Gwyneth
I very occaisionally (and nervously) feed pork because I've read about the possibility of it containing trichinosis. What are your thoughts on this?

[tati]

gmacleod, Tuffy is doing very well still. I gave him beef muscle, offal and organs and no problem. I will change him to the pork that is storaged in the freezer from about 2 weeks. I will give him pork muscle/ ground whole chicken... 2 or 3 days feeding like that then I will add also pork heart and liver. He is happy and me too! :)

Chris&Eti, do not be worried if you buy pork from a governament inspected and certified. In most developed countries is almost completely erradicated that parasites, like trichinoses. But if you're still worried about or in the area where you are you are not sure about, then just freeze the meat before feeding (I freeze every kind of meat/bone/organs before that I feed) because I know that will kill parasites. This is only my opinion, maybe is better to wait for gmacleod, she knows much better then I. :)

Cheers!

[gmacleod]

appicon appicon Great to hear! It really sounds as though Tuffy is doing perfectly on the raw food this time around. Still, lets keep things nice and slow. It won't hurt anyone for him to have a very gradual transition.

Chris&Eti: Trichinosis is destroyed by either thorough cooking or by freezing the meat for 10 days before freezing. As Tati noted, it's also actually very rare in meat raised for the human food chain anyway (but freezing is still a standard and sensible precaution for pork, and for all types of offal). More caution needs to be used with wild source meats (of many types, not just pork - and not even just trichinosis), but again, freezing takes care of most nasties.

[Chris&Eti]

Gwyneth and Tati
Thanks for your responses. The information is sort of divided on this one so its good to get some empirical info from other and more experienced raw feeders.

[tati]

Hi :)

My 2 other dogs are very easy to feed... they eat everything I give like beef, lamb, pork, rabbit, chicken, fish whatever and I never had any problem with them. Tuffy is doing very well as you know but with him things are a bit different..

This morning I added pork to the ground whole chicken and he only smelled and smelled, licked and licked but didnt eat the pork, only the GWC. It seemed that he did not like the pork smell. I tried to give him 2 little pieces from my hand, one of it he ate with no enthusiasml and the other one he just left aside.

:confused: Maybe I could add some garlic to the pork or something else. What do you think, gmacleod? Any suggestion?


Thanks!

[tati]

Chris&Eti, you are welcome! :)

[gmacleod]

Weeelll - not every dog likes everything, and it could be that he simply isn't too keen on the pork. I'd just try adding very small amounts to his GWC that you can gradually increase if you can persuade him to eat it.

If he just plain won't eat pork no matter how little is in the mix, then you probably have to conclude that that's always going to be a problem. And if he just won't cooperate, then you probably have to just strike that off the list and try another meat instead. Do try very tiny amounts well-disguised in the GWC though to start, and see if he'll come to accept it though. It might be something he can be persuaded by if it's introduced in a very gradual and well-disguised way ;)

[tati]

Hello,

I did like you said and .... goalllll ;)

Last meal: 1/4 pork, 3/4 GWC. He did accept it and ate everything! :) I will check to the next poop and if it is everything ok then tomorrow I will try 2/4 of pork, next day 3/4 ... and then I will add pork heart. Is it ok like that?

wow.. what a work ha? :rolleyes: hehehe

Ones more, thanks for your patience, gmacleod!

[gmacleod]

Yay appicon appicon

Things are going so smoothly this time around :) It's great to hear that Tuffy is doing so well.

Yep, increasing the amount of pork in his mix daily sounds very good. It's probably fine to stop at a 2/4 mix though and feed that for a few days - then the ground bone in the GWC should still be sufficient to keep his stools firm. Adding in heart after a few days is a good idea :)

LOL - Tuffy might even decide that he loves pork ;)

[tati]

gmacleod,

His stool was perfect, no gases, no vomits... :cool: then for this morning I feeded him 50% GWC / 50%Pork He seemed very enthusiastic, ate everything. I think he loves pork now :lol:

Tomorrow I will add heart pork: is it ok to change it for lamb after that or is it better to wait a bit more?

Thanks!

[gmacleod]

Yes, absolutely :)

Just go to the thread tools menu at the top of the thread. In the drop down menu, the first option is "show printable version". Selecting that will give you something suitable for printing out :)

[tati]

gmacleod,

If you say yes to my #30 post question then tomorrow evening I should take the lamb from the freezer. :confused:

"gmacleod, His stool was perfect, no gases, no vomits... then for this morning I feeded him 50% GWC / 50%Pork He seemed very enthusiastic, ate everything. I think he loves pork now.
Tomorrow I will add heart pork: is it ok to change it for lamb after that or is it better to wait a bit more?
Thanks!"

With Tuffy I prefer to ask his godmother whats the best for him! :) I still fell a bit scared about his feeding... when I remember the problems I had before... and you are right in everything you said till now and he is doing excellent!

Thanks again!! :)

[gmacleod]

Well, yes I think trying him on a bit of lamb now should be fine. Since he's had absolutely no signs of any trouble at all, I think it's fine to go just a little faster :) Though if you want to do a couple more days on the GWC/pork mix, that's fine too!

With the lamb, you're able to get legs, shoulder, heart, liver and ribs I think? Since this one can be a fatty meat (well, some parts more than others) it can be a good test of what he handles in his diet. I'm sure that legs aren't going to go through your grinder, but will parts of the ribs? If they won't, then it would be a good idea to mix this meat with the GWC just the same as for the beef and the pork - then he keeps a good amount of bone in his diet and that will help to keep his stools firm. Since lamb can be a little fatty, there may be more risk of loose stools with lamb than with the previous meats (though that depends a lot on the individual dog).

Once we have the lamb introduced, I think the only things left are fish and tripe. I'm sure he'll be fine with those. From there, we can try him on some whole bones in the meat ranges we've already established are OK. And then finally, we can start to wean the kibble out the diet. So there's a reasonable way to go yet ;) but if Tuffy keeps on handling things as well as he has so far, it's really going to be a painless transition.

[tati]

Hello!!

No signs of any trouble :) till now he is doing perfect eating pork/pork-heart and GWC. Tomorrow I will add pork kidney and then I will switch for lamb.

My grinder only grind chicken bones :mad: What do you think if I grind chicken necks instead GWC and mix it to the pork? Then he will get more pork meat than chicken. Maybe I can do that when he will be on the second day on lamb...??? :confused:

The lamb I have in the freezer are exactly what you said: legs, shoulder, heart, liver and ribs - and also kidney. Some bones are soft, but not thattt soft to my grinder.

"Once we have the lamb introduced, I think the only things left are fish and tripe"

Well, I added already green tripe when he was eating beef, he loved it ;) . Other proteins I have in the freezer that is new for him are fish (sardine) and duck.

Thanks!!

[gmacleod]

That all sounds very good :) And it doesn't matter that the grinder will only do chicken bones - he's doing just fine getting a mix of chicken and whichever other meat is currently under test. It just means that you have to keep mixing them (ie. it's no big deal, just slightly more work for you :D ).

OK - so it's lamb in a couple of days :) Still mixed with the chicken. Then we're on to the fish and the duck. That all sounds very good. Once those are both tested, we can try including some whole bones in his diet and see how that works out.

[tati]

OK OK godmother, i will keep grinding whole chicken :lol: lots of work ha? hehehe

[tati]

Hi :)

Tuffy was doing very well on pork :)

This morning I added lamb meat to the GWC amount. It was 1/4 of lamb and 3/4 GWC. His poop (10min ago) had a bit of mucous and was a bit creamy to soft. :eek: Didnt look that good like before but it is not completly runny... Lamb is fattier...

What for tomorrow? Should I give lamb meat again or something else?

Thanks!!

[gmacleod]

Mmmm. How about just giving him GWC tomorrow, then trying the lamb again the day after? As long as his stool is normal, anyway.

It could be that lamb isn't going to be a good meat for him, or he may just need a gentle introduction. Or it could be something else entirely that has just affected him slightly and he'll bounce right back. But if we back off to something we know he handles just fine (the GWC), wait till the stools are all fine again - then try the lamb a second time, we'll get a much better idea of whether or not lamb is going to be a problem for him. And if it is, it's no big deal. We just strike that meat off the list of things that work well for him (he's got plenty of variety already, since he has been fine with every other meat :)).

[tati]

Hello again :)

Last evening Tuffy refused his kibble. He is smart, didnt want that stuff full of grains... LOL Then I replaced the kibble to only GWC, he was very excited and got everything. This morning his poop was good again then I repeated his meal from yesterday morning: GWC and lamb. His poop (+/- 30 min ago) was PERFECT, the best poop in his life! :lol:

What do you think to give 50% lamb 50% GWC for Tuffy tomorrow morning? And what if he will resufe his kibble tonight? Can I change it for GWC?

Thank you very much!

[gmacleod]

Last evening Tuffy refused his kibble.
Smart puppy ;) I guess he thinks we're doing this transition too slowly. LOL

Well, if he continues to refuse the kibble, then yes, you'll have to switch those meals to raw. That's fine too. And the only thing left for us to do will be a gradual introduction of whole bones for him.

Absolutely, if his stool is good, go right on with the GWC/lamb mix :)

[tati]

gmacleod,

Everything was just ok till this morning, He wokes up itching and his paws are red now :( I think he is a lamb allergic. First time he got lamb his poop was soft but the next stool was perfect and now he is itching and itching and his poo looks creamy.

What do you think about? Tomorrow only GWC?

Thank you very much!! :)

[gmacleod]

Mmmm. Doesn't sound like Tuffy and lamb are going to be a good combination. Oh well, can't have everything. And that's exactly the reason for adding new food items one at a time. It's very easy to see when something doesn't agree with the dog, and exactly what it is causing the problem. So, it just sounds as though lamb isn't going to be on Tuffy's menu. That's OK though, he's got plenty of variety with all the other meats that he does do well on.

Yes, just go back to the GWC until the symptoms are all gone. That might take a day or so, but we can't introduce anything new until all systems have been normal for a few days.

[tati]

Yeah, sound like he is a lamb sensitive. :( Since I stoped to give lamb he is getting better, less itching and a his stool is geting normal again.

I can try lamb again in a few months...

Should I add fish tomorrow or go back to the beef or pork if everything is ok with him?

Thanks GMom! :)

[gmacleod]

Good to hear he's returning to normal :)

I think it is wise to wait until all symptoms are completely gone before we introduce the fish. Thing is, if we give him the fish right away and if that food doesn't happen to agree with him, we wouldn't be able to be quite certain whether it was the fish or some residual effect of the lamb... So better to wait until everything has been totally normal for a few days.

In the meantime, feeding him just GWC is fine. Or if you'd like to add some beef or pork, that's fine too, since we already know he's OK with those meats. He's been having a pretty good variety of different foods, so there's no issue nutritionally here - he isn't in danger of lacking anything in his diet. Just feed him whichever of those options is the easiest for you :) We'll probably be on to trying the fish within about a week :)

[tati]

gmacleod :)

Updating you: Tuffy is doing good again eating his GWC/beef or pork, a bit of offal and organs.

His poop is completly normal again appicon . He is very sensitive, needed more time to get the poop normal. My 2 other dogs are completly different, just one day and they are readdy... Tuffy needs around 4 days to recover.

I will wait a few more days to add another new protein... Fish isnt too rich? :confused:

Thanks!!

[gmacleod]

That's good to hear :)

Giving him a few more days sounds like a good idea. Then it's time to try fish. I don't think fish is likely to be too rich. It is actually extremely lean - and oil doesn't normally have the same issues that fat can (but is extremely good for his skin and coat). There's only one way to find out how he'll do with it though, and that's to try it ;)

Fish is never going to be something that makes up a large portion of the diet - maybe one meal per week or every two weeks. But it is a very good source of high quality omega 3 and omega 6 essential fatty acids, and various other nutrients and vitamins. So it's certainly something worthwhile including as an occassional meal - which makes it worth finding out how it agrees with Tuffy :) Again though, it's not a big deal if it doesn't happen to agree with him. There are other sources of omega acids that can be used instead.

[tati]

Judy, you are super sweet :) Thank you very much!

Now I know a little bit more about Tuffy's digestive system! He is not like the other 2 dogs I have. To that ones I can feed rocks :lol: and probably they will love it and eat! :D Tuffy is much more sensitive!

I am glad that has other possibilities if he gets sick to the fish. Tomorrow I will try to give him sardines. To the other dogs I give whole fish and no grind When I feed Tuffy I only grind the whole chicken, I dont grind all the rest I mix init, like beef, pork and organs. So, I have a question... Shoud I give him ground fish or not?

Thanks everybody! ;)

[gmacleod]

I don't think grinding the fish is needed. Fish doesn't have big bones, and that's really the only reason for grinding his food. He should have no trouble digesting it. LOL - we just have to see if he likes it ;)

[tati]

GodMom and Judy!!!!! I think I am not a Frenchie, I am a big shark!! :D I did eat the whole sardine in 10 seconds. Everything! The skin, bones and head! And Guess? My poop is normal! :cool:

gmacleod, as you read Tuffy is doing very well, he loved sardine, I feeded it frozen! He loved. appicon appicon

He does not like kibble anymore, no way. Then he is eating 100% raw. ;)

What is next then? A few more days eating GWC/fish and then? whole bones? Or rabbit? Or something else?:lol:

Waiting for you! Thanks!

[gmacleod]

Ooooh - you can get rabbit? Excellent :) How about trying some of that next? What's nice about rabbit is the size of animal (and also that it's a nice lean meat). Possibly your grinder would cope with rabbit... but if he does good with rabbit in his diet, it would also be a good thing to start trying out the whole bones with as well. The bones on a rabbit are going to be quite a lot less dense than those of larger animals like beef or pork.

So between the rabbit and the chicken, we've got two meats that have good sized bones to reintroduce Tuffy to eating them whole instead of ground.

Great to hear he did well with the fish :) Fish isn't something that gets fed all that often, but it's a nice thing to have for variety.

PS: Sorry for the slow reply, but I took a few days break in Budapest. No internet! I met a very cute Frenchie there though :)

[tati]

Hey gmacleod! Welcome back! :)

I hope you had a great time in Budapest, and I think you had! :cool: But I missed you here! :p Did you invite that Frenchie from Budapest to join our FB community?

Tuffy is doing very well with GWC mixed to beef, offal, organs, green tripe, pork and now also fish. appicon Ok, now will be the rabbit.

The rabbits I have are full carcass (everything init), very small, kind of baby rabbits, about 1 kg each one. I use to cut each carcass in 3 pieces and give 1/3 to each dog, to my other dogs.

Yep, my grinder can grind that bones. They are very very soft...Do do you thing is it necessary to grind it? :confused:

To start, I am thinking to give him 1/4 rabbit-3/4 GWC and tomorrow and to thenext meal 2/4-2/4.

What do you think?

[gmacleod]

Well, how about trying him with the rabbit whole (as in not ground)? He's been eating raw without any problems for a while now, so it's about time to try giving him whole bones again. And the rabbit bones are probably the best thing to try him on - they should be quite easily digestible.

I think your suggestion of 1/4 un-ground rabbit and 3/4 GWC is a good one. And if he has no problems with that, we could increase the amount of rabbit that he gets. It's a nice lean meat, so I would expect him to have any trouble with it.

And if all goes well, that's something you could try feeding him without the GWC.


And yes, Budapest was fun :) Nice to visit before it gets too westernised.

[tati]

OK gmacleod.. whole rabbit then!! appicon appicon Thanks!

Judy: gmacleod is only OUR (Tuffy and I) evilicon Just kidding! :lol: You are very sweet, and I am very happy each time I read your posts full of hopes and good advices! :)

Kisses from us! :)

[tati]

Hello!!!

Tuffy is a LION!!! He is a bone eater! :)

He chewed 3-4 times the bones and swallowed it very carefully. He is very funny eating bones :lol: His poop was perfect! appicon

Could I try to feed him a whole rabitt without GWC? I mean, only the rabitt to the next 2 days? The rabbit has everything inside, like organs, etc... Is it ok, gmacleod? :rolleyes:

[gmacleod]

Yay Tuffy! What a little lion this god-puppy of mine is :D :D

It's great to hear he's doing so well. As long as he's digesting everything nicely, no tummy or poop issues, I see no reason why he shouldn't have whole rabbit without any GWC :) That's a very nice gentle re-introduction to whole bones for him and since they're whole carcasses, it really is ideal.

Well, let's see how he does with the whole rabbit on it's own :) If it all goes nicely, then we could try him with un-ground chicken parts. And after that, some small beef/lamb/pork bones too. All going well, it may be time to retire the grinder ;)

[tati]

Yeah! Tuffy got his 100% whole rabbit meal! He did chew the bones and everything else :cool: No sign of upset tummy...appicon

gmacleod, I am a bit afraid to give him beef bones bc that bones are dense. Denser than chicken or rabbit bones.:eek:

For this evening I am thinking in to give him a whole pork (bones in), but I am also a bit afraid... I do not know if i should start mixing a bit of GWC in to the pork. Like 3/4 whole pork and 1/4 GWC?!?: Or only the whole pork?!? :confused:

[gmacleod]

Great :) He's doing very well indeed.

When it comes to beef and pork, the bones are indeed rather a lot harder. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be fed, but it does mean that we need to choose carefully which bones are given. I don't feed the big ones to my dog either. But I do feed ribs, especially the short ends. Veal ribs too, of course, which are smaller. They're excellent for teeth cleaning and are generally small and soft enough to be chewed up without any problems.

There is really only one way to find out how Tuffy will handle them, and that's to try it. If you'd prefer not to, or if he doesn't digest them well, it really isn't the end of the world. He can have beef and pork meat/offal along with some boney portions of chicken or rabbit instead. He'll still get a good varied diet that way, with an appropriate amount of bone in it.

Still, if you've got some pork available, it's probably worth trying him with it to see how he does. I think that feeding it with some GWC or else with a good amount of pork meat is a good idea. That just keeps his introduction to whole bones nice and gentle. If he does OK with it, then he can have a greater amount of whole bone in future meals :)

[tati]

Hello!

Last night I did fed him the whole meat/bone pork mixed to a very small amount of GWC. After almost 40 min he finished his meal. :rolleyes: Tuffy did handle very good to the pork bones, it was soft. Poop perfect, no problem! No gases, no nothing! appicon

This morning I changed a bit: I did feed him only the pork criteria. Whole pork (MB) and a small amount of pork liver. He is looking perfect! :)

After 2 or more months trying to adjust Tuffy to the raws, YOU gmacleod, with your goodness, patience and knowledge, and I, with my love, we did help him a lot and now I think he is readdy to start to be feeded 100% natural in a good way, the gmacleod way. appicon appicon I am so glad!

He is doing good with the beef, pork, chicken, rabbit and fish then I can fed him in the way I think is healthy. :D Slowly I am giving him meat, bones, organs, offals... the whole criterias from different animals. I think I do not need to grind anymore since he did very good to the pork and rabbit bones. I think he is readdy to be feeded with a varied menu in a gentle way. ;)

I am so glad that the kibble is not in his menu anymore, that his mouth has no bad smell and that he looks very healthy and happy. You are really his godmom, very important for us. I have no more words to say THANK YOU, gmacleod.

Any advice? Well, I dont feed brains to my dogs too!:lol:

[gmacleod]

Yay Tuffy! appicon appicon

He really has done very, very well :) I think you're right, he's a full fledged raw fed dog now. No need for him ever to have kibble again. And he has a wonderfully varied menu there, that he should thrive on.

He's got a wonderfully caring and patient Mama there too ;)