Chicken necks

[NYfrenchie]

We are feeding our 5 1/2 month old Chloe 10 oz. of natures variety each day, aslo with some missing link every other day follwed by some vtiamin c, and an egg every sunday. We are also switching protein sources almost every week as well. My question is we are only giving 1 chicken neck each day for teeth cleaning purposes, is that enough????or do I have to start brushing? Also I have to hold it for her, cause she will eat it whole and then puke it up. Thanks..

[gmacleod]

I believe you would need to be brushing her teeth ;)

Chicken necks really don't give a dog any real chewing activity at all, especially one with the jaw and bite power of a frenchie (the dog might be small, but the jaw most certainly isn't - and these are dogs capable of chewing through items that much larger dogs might have more trouble with). A chicken neck might give a dental work out to a chihuahua, but not to anything with a much larger jaw than that.

If you want to give your dog decent teeth cleaning through it's food, I'd suggest feeding things like beef brisket or whole chicken backs/frames. Something that she's going to spend several minutes getting into a state where she can swallow it. Alternatively, brush her teeth a couple of times per week.

[NYfrenchie]

I believe you would need to be brushing her teeth ;)

Chicken necks really don't give a dog any real chewing activity at all, especially one with the jaw and bite power of a frenchie (the dog might be small, but the jaw most certainly isn't - and these are dogs capable of chewing through items that much larger dogs might have more trouble with). A chicken neck might give a dental work out to a chihuahua, but not to anything with a much larger jaw than that.

If you want to give your dog decent teeth cleaning through it's food, I'd suggest feeding things like beef brisket or whole chicken backs/frames. Something that she's going to spend several minutes getting into a state where she can swallow it. Alternatively, brush her teeth a couple of times per week. Thanks again, so how about 1 meal every other day with lets say just chicken backs or frames? It is hard to tell if we are under feeding her cause she eats her food like she is starving. I think I might bump it up to 12oz and go with some more bones for a meal every now and then, so we shall see how it goes. Thanks again.
Also is it normal for her to swallow these chicken necks whole, I now have to hold it for her, but if I don't she does not chew it, and usually pukes it right up.

[gmacleod]

LOL - yes, that's reasonably normal. Most dogs will give a chicken neck one or two crunches if you're lucky, then it goes straight down. Same for chicken wings - two or three crunches to break the joints (just enough to enable the wing to slide down the throat in a straight line) and they're gone. Of course, if whatever they just swallowed was a little large, up it comes again, and they have another go :rolleyes: Sounds gross, but it's perfectly natural for them.

It would seem a little unusual for that to happen with something as small as a chicken neck - but it is partially dependant on how used the dog is to getting whole bones ;) If the dog is interested in re-eating the item though, then it's really nothing to worry about (and that's irrespective of whether or not you allow the dog to re-eat it - what it means is that the dog isn't nauseous at all).

Anyway - if she doesn't puke it up if you hold the end and force her to chew it before swallowing, it really is just a size issue. And that may be something that disappears with time, as her system gets more used to digesting whole bone.

On the chicken backs - yes, a meal of that every other day shoulld take care of the teeth. She can't swallow a chicken back whole, she will be forced to chew. And it is chewing through nice flexible bones like that that keeps the teeth nice and clean.

[NYfrenchie]

LOL - yes, that's reasonably normal. Most dogs will give a chicken neck one or two crunches if you're lucky, then it goes straight down. Same for chicken wings - two or three crunches to break the joints (just enough to enable the wing to slide down the throat in a straight line) and they're gone. Of course, if whatever they just swallowed was a little large, up it comes again, and they have another go :rolleyes: Sounds gross, but it's perfectly natural for them.

It would seem a little unusual for that to happen with something as small as a chicken neck - but it is partially dependant on how used the dog is to getting whole bones ;) If the dog is interested in re-eating the item though, then it's really nothing to worry about (and that's irrespective of whether or not you allow the dog to re-eat it - what it means is that the dog isn't nauseous at all).

Anyway - if she doesn't puke it up if you hold the end and force her to chew it before swallowing, it really is just a size issue. And that may be something that disappears with time, as her system gets more used to digesting whole bone.

On the chicken backs - yes, a meal of that every other day shoulld take care of the teeth. She can't swallow a chicken back whole, she will be forced to chew. And it is chewing through nice flexible bones like that that keeps the teeth nice and clean. Thanks thats excactly the answer I was looking for, and no I don't let her eat her throwup, something about watching it makes me wanna puke myself..uHHHH.. Thanks again for all your help it is greatly apreciated..

[lcmwest]

Well, Scout will chew some of a drumstick and swallow a HUGE piece and then bring it back up and eat it. It is kind of scary to watch her, I am afraid she will choke. She chews and partially swallows, then keeps the whole thing in her mouth while she chomps on the rest of it. Then, she swallows it all and up it comes. Should I try giving her backs too? maybe the drumsticks are too small?:confused:

[gmacleod]

Well, drumsticks are weight bearing bones. They're harder than anything else to digest (even from a relatively small animal like a chicken) and they're also the hardest on the teeth. That's hard from a potential-to-do-damage persepective, not hard from a difficult to chew and therefore good for the teeth one.

So trying something like backs can be a good idea. The bones on those are much smaller and softer - actually a lot is just cartillage. The size and shape of the item is what means the dog has to chew it well before it can swallow, and that in turn is what cleans the teeth so nicely. And unless the dog swallows too-large pieces, it is unlikely to throw it back up.

[ev960d]

[QUOTE=gmacleod]Well, drumsticks are weight bearing bones. They're harder than anything else to digest (even from a relatively small animal like a chicken) and they're also the hardest on the teeth. That's hard from a potential-to-do-damage persepective, not hard from a difficult to chew and therefore good for the teeth one.

I'd like to feed raw on weekends but the last 2 times, I found him vomitting little bits of crushed bones & some sticky stuff like phelgm thing. hmm...I fed him chicken wings & ends of drumsticks in that round. Even minus the drumsticks, he will also vomit some of those last night's dinner the next morning. Is this normal? So I got sort of discouraged to feed raw.

I only know chicken wings has a good ratio of meat & bones from bulldog world appicon . There's quite limited meat source here so I do not know what other things has got good ratio. In our market, we have only mutton, beef, chicken, pork & fish. Can't find turkey or game meat here.

I've been trying to find some recipes on raw. Are there any good books around?

[gmacleod]

I wonder if the problem isn't too much bone versus meat there. The Billinghurst-style BARFers would certainly agree that chicken necks/wings provide a perfect ration of meat to bone. But others prefer to give a greater amount of meat/offal than that. And on a full barf diet, I do note that several meals in the week are made up of muscle meat, offal and/or vegetables. In short - it's not every meal that can be items like chicken wings. More meat is required.

For my own part, I have noted over the years that if I feed too many meals of chicken wings or other boney chicken parts in a row, then my dogs will vomit up bits of bone exactly as you describe. If I feed a reasonable number of meat and offal meals as well though, then that doesn't happen. So the conclusion I reach there is that I need to feed a variety of different meals - never the same thing for too many meals in a row. Accordingly, what I'd suggest is that after you have fed a meal of chicken wings, make the next meal more meaty - fish would be fine, as would ground mutton or beef, etc.

Some good books that might be useful for you are:
Raw dog food, making it work for you and your dog - Carina Beth Macdonald
Natural nutrition for dogs and cats, the ultimate diet - Kymythy Schultze
Switching to Raw by Susan Johnson http://www.switchingtoraw.com/

[franp]

[QUOTE=gmacleod]I.

For my own part, I have noted over the years that if I feed too many meals of chicken wings or other boney chicken parts in a row, then my dogs will vomit up bits of bone exactly as you describe.

Same here..

After many months of no chicken necks, I gave Dari one three nights in a row..Not only did she throw up but her stool was rock hard, indicating way too much bone..

The solution: I give her necks only when I use the meat with no bone in it.

fran

[ev960d]

Wow! Thanks for enlightening me :p I thought something was wrong with him. He made me so worried. I scare myself of all other health problems and didn't know it's only because of too much bone in the diet. Gmacleod, thanks for recommending the books, I will do a search in the bookstores this weekend.

I'm so glad that this website is available. It certainly enhances my joy of keeping a frenchie buddy appicon

Thank you so much :)

[sakirby]

i have fed oscar turkey necks before but, how do i get the chicken backs? can i just ask the butcher at the grocery store? it sounds interesting, especially since now we have a backyard so, i could feed oscar this stuff outside. i was getting sick of having it pushed around the kitchen floor :)

gmacleod, do you know anything about putting enzymes in dogs water bowls in order to break up the plaque so you don't need to brush. i feed oscar raw marrow bones every once and awhile but, i don't think he is getting enough chewing in to clean his teeth and i haven't brushed his teeth. we certainly could start but, i also have seen this stuff you pour in their water that is supposed to work. anyone know about this or should i just scrap the idea and brush oscar's teeth? thanks!

[ev960d]

I've seen this sort of liquid selling in our local stores. It says add into the drinking water of the dog..helps to reduce tartar etc. Haven't try that because I still prefer brushing his teeth. Samia, I envy you. He HATES brushing. He will only show a little more co-operation after a tiring run or walk. I have been luring him with treats..now, it doesn't work that well anymore. I think I should stop telling him to "come" and then do something he hates. He might associate "come" to be a bad thing :lol:

When can he understand that cleaning his ears, brushing his teeth is good for him :confused:

[ev960d]

Hi Lilydog,

Oopphs..I didn't use a yummy chicken flavoured toothpaste..maybe that's why he hates brushing teeth. Clipping nails and brushing his fur is ok to him. Oh, I thought it is good to clean his ears especially after a bath? That's why I did it everytime I bath him, clean the wax at the same time. He has yeast when we bought him so it makes me paranoid about keeping his ears healthy. Hmm...maybe there's another reason why he is not that coming when I ask him to "come" in school..something in his ears :lol:

I will try to find a better flavoured toothpaste..:p

[gmacleod]

I've never heard of the enzymes thing. And in total ignorance of the subject, the first thing that pops into my head is that if enymes are strong enough to dissove tartar, what do they do for tooth enamel? Plus, dogs lap up their water - they don't submerge their mouths and suck, or swill it round before swallowing... so how does it get cycled round their teeth? Pessimistic, I know, but those are the thoughts that come to mind on that one. Possibly the manufacturer has answers.

As for where to get chicken backs/frames - anywhere that is butchering (as in cutting up) chickens. A supermarket will be fine if they're cuttting up their own chickens rather than getting meat in pre-packed. Otherwise a butcher. And it should cost you next to nothing too - they're complete waste otherwise. A chicken back is what remains after you chop off the breast, the legs and the wings for sale as separate parts. The frame is there if the breasts were taken off boneless.

And that's actually another way of getting hold of them if all else fails. Butcher your own chicken ;) I do that sometimes - buy a whole chicken, take the breasts off boneless to cook for myself. And the dog gets everything else (depending on the size of a chicken, it can last a good three meals for a boxer - more for a frenchie).