natural balance raw

[mojo]

has anyone tried natural balances new raw food? It appears to be good food, but I'm not really sure how it compares to some of the other raw foods currently being fed by all of you. I'd love some feedback on this raw food, as it is locally available and would be easy for me to find.

[franp]

I use Bravo, no bad breath in my house... I really think that it is the Nature's variety that is causing it.. NOT the raw..

Nature's Variety from my understanding has suppliments added..I bet that that is what is causing the bad breath..Every dog on this board with bad breath on raw uses the same brand of food...

Try using a raw food with nothing but the meat and bones.. see what happens..

fran

[franp]

There are many variations on raw feeding ; one of which is the prey model.. It does not include any vegetables..I know many people that use the prey model; thier dogs are very healthy.

Dogs in the wild do not eat veggies..Read and go on the various raw lists.They talk all about prey model feeding.

fran

[franp]

I'm confused fran, how is a diet with just meat and bones adequate? I thought they had to have a balanced diet with other ingredients? Now I'm really confused:confused:.
Judy[/QUOTE]


This is exactly why I always tell people to read and understand Raw feeding BEFORE they switch..Because just meat and bones is adequate..This is called "prey model feeding"..

Humans invented "balanced diet"..for humans..not for dogs.. We need to read and understand Raw..

Dogs are opportunistic omnivores; if it there they will eat it..But look at thier teeth; they are designed for ripping and tearing .Not the teeth for veggies..Meat is meant to be ripped and torn..Hence the prey model..No teeth for veggies..

fran

[gmacleod]

Actually a diet of straight meat and bone is not balanced - and I don't know anyone who claims that it is. A "whole prey" model diet is one that includes meat, bone, offal and some amount of skin/fat. That is balanced. And offal is an extremely important part of the diet.

Whether or not any vegetable matter is required is where the debate centres. We all know that dogs lack the enzyme cellulase - so they are incapable of digesting vegetables since they can't break down the cellulose walls of plant material. If you want to feed a dog vegetables, then they have to be partially digested already (which, in the modern context means cooked or pulverised).

Some people believe that dogs during their evolution ate the stomach contents of prey, some don't. Note that eating the stomach is not the same as eating it's contents ;) Did they let the contents spill out or didn't they? That's what the whole debate swings around.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe that, like the vast majority of other carnivores, dogs would have eaten small prey animals whole, and on the occassions they were lucky enough to get something larger, would have let the stomach contents spill (unless, perhaps, everyone was starving - literally). The dog's complete lack of digestive enzymes to cope with plant material is what convinces me - if they'd eaten plant material on a regular basis and developed any evolved need for it, then they'd have evolved digestive enzymes to cope with digesting it too. I'm darned sure they didn't wait x number of hours to hunt to give their prey a chance to digest the veges to a proper state LOL

Accordingly, I feed around 5% vegetable matter to my dog.

Even the most ardent vegetable proponents don't normally feed more than about 20% vegetable matter (and usually it's less). But looking at the Nature's Variety products, it would appear to contain rather a lot more than that. It is also heavily supplemented...

A well balanced raw diet should not require any supplements at all. Or if it does, then that should be to address specific known dietary deficiencies. Otherwise, you run the risk of creating excesses - and that can be worse. Even those people who do believe supplements are necessary, usually add them once or twice a week - not daily!

If I were feeding Nature's Variety raw, then I believe I would be replacing about half of all meals with whole meat parts ;)

I would note that included supplements is actually what leads many barfers to advise against feeding pre-made raw diets at all. Here's one interesting view on that: http://www.rawlearning.com/premaderaw.html
While I don't do the pre-made stuff myself, I don't have any fixation on the subject. But if I ever fed it, I'd choose to feed only the sort that was purely a mix of whole meat parts and offal (preferably not ground either, though it's possible to compensate for that) and add any supplements or fruits/vegetables to the food myself. That way, I know precisely what my dog is eating, in what proportions, and what the quality of the ingredients was ;)

[franp]

. But if I ever fed it, I'd choose to feed only the sort that was purely a mix of whole meat parts and offal (preferably not ground either, though it's possible to compensate for that) and add any supplements or fruits/vegetables to the food myself. That way, I know precisely what my dog is eating, in what proportions, and what the quality of the ingredients was ;)[/QUOTE]

Thanks Gwyneth; that's why I use Bravo; they have a line of premade with NO additives..no veggies ; no suppliments..just meat; 20% bone and offal..

I truly believe that the suppliments are causing the bad breathe.. Stand next to someone who ate garlic or curry last night.. Thier breath smells..it is not the food it is the additives..

Most of my friends feed raw; most do not give suppliment on a daily basis... I don't..And when I do, it is on a limited basis..
And the breeders I know that do a prey model, give NO veggies..Just meat, bones and offal...And they wean thier pups on this as well..Pups that go on to be Champions; excellent producers and wonderful pets with LONG healthy lives...Not even 5% veggies...

for those of you with dogs with sour breath..Go to the store; buy ground beef; chicken or turkey.. Feed your dog for one week... Then see the change in the dog's breath..
By the way my friend Patty lives in Fresno; and has been using raw ground turkey and chicken from the supermarket for 10 years. plus chicken necks and wings..NO veggies...for those of you who are afraid of whole bones; go to the health food store and get bone meal..You do not have to buy premade raw...

fran

[franp]

Jessica,

Whiskers will deliver Bravo...(1 800 whiskers)

fran

[mojo]

It appears that there is some disagreement among those that feed raw as to the best way to go about it. Some say not to add vitamin/mineral supplements, while others say to add them. Some say not to add fruits and vegetables, while others are adamant that they are a necessary a dogs complete health.

I would love some specific opinions from those who are "informed" on the topic of raw feeding, on Natural Balance Raw food. It does contain meat, bone, fruits and veggies, egg, and various other items.

The website is www.naturalbalanceinc.com

[franp]

It appears that there is some disagreement among those that feed raw as to the best way to go about it. Some say not to add vitamin/mineral supplements, while others say to add them. Some say not to add fruits and vegetables, while others are adamant that they are a necessary a dogs complete health.

I would love some specific opinions from those who are "informed" on the topic of raw feeding, on Natural Balance Raw food. It does contain meat, bone, fruits and veggies, egg, and various other items.

The website is www.naturalbalanceinc.com

Ok, I just looked at the ingredients of the Natural Balance... And they look great..
My problem: I just don't give all of these every single day..

This is how I feed Dari...
I use Bravo( I know you can not get it where you are, more to a solution later) just meat and bone.Then every day or two, I add Natural Apple cider vinegar (1/4 tsp) and the same amount of wild salmon oil..

Every couple of days. I give her ground chicken heart;liver and the stuff that comes in the little packet when you get a whole chicken (for offal).

Then again, every day or so, I add Urban Wolf, which is all of the non-meat ingredients that are in the Natural Balance...

The method to my madness? I am in control of the quantity and for the most part, the quality of her food..I decide how much she gets of what..And as time goes on, I am getting closer and closer to a prey model..Because Dari seems to be responding to it..Coat is shinier, teeth are great,etc.

Now as to the plain meat; you can not get Bravo or Oma..

Do what my friend in Fresno and many others do ..Go to the supermarket and get ground chicken or beef or whatever your dog eats!!And then mix in what you want..
My friend Patty has been doing this for over 7 years.. Her Alexi is one of the healthiest Frenchies I have ever seen.. Patty buys the meat; makes portions and freezes them...

So a long answer to a short question.. Natural Balance looks good; too many ingredients on a daily basis in my opinion...

fran

[franp]

PS..We don't eat a balanced diet EVERY day... It averages out...That is how I was taught to feed my dog..

fran

[gmacleod]

It appears that there is some disagreement among those that feed raw as to the best way to go about it. Some say not to add vitamin/mineral supplements, while others say to add them. Some say not to add fruits and vegetables, while others are adamant that they are a necessary a dogs complete health.

Sure, there is. And the debate can get pretty heated amongst the fanatics too.

But IMO it's a bit silly to get carried away on the details like that. When that happens, people are concentrating on the differences in beliefs. And completely ignoring the fact that all raw feeders agree on 90% of what a dog should eat ;) All raw feeders base their diets on raw meat and bones, with some amount of offal included.

People who feed their dogs without any fruit/vegetable matter generally have outstandingly healthy dogs. So do the ones who include fruit and vegetables as a minor (< 20%) part of the diet. IMO that actually makes the issue of whether or not vegetable matter should be included in a dog's diet fairly irrelevant - certainly a small issue and one that is not worthy of the debate it manages to generate. Both sides of the argument can point to their wonderfully healthy dogs as "proof" that their argument is correct. Well, that actually means that neither side is wrong either ;)


As for the Natural Balance... Actually I have to say it's not something I think I would choose to feed. Or at least, not on a daily basis. It is too high in vegetable content for my liking, includes vegetables that I'd probably not choose to feed at all (brocolli, for example, gives a lot of dogs gas, and apples can contribute to yeast infections), and it is heavily supplemented. I can't understand the reason for such a range of supplements - those things should be already present in the meat/bone/offal.

When raw feeders (those who use whole meat parts, I mean) talk about "supplements" - that means something like a little flax seed or salmon oil, some kelp powder, egg and garlic added to the food two or three times a week. NOT a massive range of additives added every single meal.

As something to feed a few times a week, with plain meat/bone meals the rest of the time, I'd say it's fine. As something to feed daily, I would not buy it.

[mojo]

franp and gmacleod, thank you for your insightful replies. Both of you are clearly educated on this subject, and I appreciate your responses. I guess my initial hesitation with this food was because of the relatively long ingredient list, so I appreciate the affirmation.

franp, do you get Bravo locally or have it shipped?

[franp]

franp and gmacleod, thank you for your insightful replies. Both of you are clearly educated on this subject, and I appreciate your responses. I guess my initial hesitation with this food was because of the relatively long ingredient list, so I appreciate the affirmation.

franp, do you get Bravo locally or have it shipped?


I am fortunate that I can get Bravo locally..The manufacturing/packing plant is in Conn.Which by the way is immaculate..A friend of mine went to it; she said you can eat off the floor..

There is a member here; Gigi McKeehon (sp) that gets Bravo shipped..I think she uses Barfworld..I am not sure if that is her supplier..But go to www.bravorawdiet.com they may have shipping on the site or a way to find a shipper/retailer..

fran

[NYfrenchie]

Our trainer got us hooked on natural balance for treats. Chloe and the other dogs in our puppy classes seem to only obey when natural balance is used, plus the ingredients seem to be pretty healthy..