Nipping Other Dogs

[wendykei]

I'm not sure if I should have posted this under the "Frenchie hates other dogs" thread, but it seems a different issue because Sidney actually LOVES to play with other dogs. The problem is that I've noticed at the dog park that he usually identifies a dog he wants to play with and then he starts nipping at the other dog's neck to get him to play with him. All of the dogs at the dog park have been really patient with him, but I don't want him to be an unruly dog and certainly don't want him to learn any bad habits. Does anyone else have this problem? What works the best to correct? I read in one flyer posted at the park that dogs will usually work this out on their own (by growling in response, etc.), but have also heard that giving him a time out is a good idea. Any thoughts? Also, we start obedience class tonight, so I'm sure I'll get more good info.

[Nagrom]

Our dog does the same thing.... She loves playing with the other doggies, but she'll jump at them, nipping at their face trying to get them to play. Sometimes she'll even grab a hold of a fold of skin on another dog's face and pull and tug at it! Our dog is a little over 5 months old. I mentioned this to the breeder, and she said that it's a good thing that the dog likes to play so much and that she'll develop a more mature behavior around other dogs as she grows up. I'm not as convinced, but we'll see, I guess!

So, I really don't have any answers for you - just a similar story.... Maybe somebody out there will point us in the right direction! How old is your dog - still a puppy, I assume?

[wendykei]

I should have pointed out that Sidney is 4 months and only a recent visitor to the dog parks. I haven't been very good about correcting Sidney because, honestly, I didn't know how much to interject. I thought he might calm down on his own if we went a few times and he got a little more used to it, but he's been pretty consistenly the craziest dog at the park.

[piper's~mom]

From the little experience I have at the dog park with Piper - my impression is that they'll figure it out. The more mature dogs have told him a couple of times, when he's gotten too rambunctious, that he needs to chill out. It usually looks and sounds much worse than it ever is. It can look kind of scary... but in the end its always just been a correction from an older dog to a little whiper snapper.

[wendykei]

Thanks for the reassurances. I meant to include in my original post that I really only became concerned enough to post about the behavior AFTER I picked Sidney up from doggie day care on Tuesday (which I decided to enroll him in specifically because he loves to play with the other dogs).

Anyways, the owner came out when I arrived to pick Sidney up and basically said that he was too wild for the puppies and even for the adult dogs so ended up in a lot of time outs and therefore may have not gotten enough exercise. She seemed to imply that he would change his behavior more readily with HUMAN intervention, which as I mentioned earlier seemed somewhat out of line with what I had read and heard about dog interactions (and what I remember from having dogs as a kid).

So we started obedience class last night and the trainer said that I should only intervene if Sidney is being REALLY obnoxious--like continuing and continuing to chase/nip a dog even after they have warned him to back off. And all she did was pick him up and hold him away from the other dog until he settled down. I like that idea a lot better than isolating him in a separate area. (He starts to whimper and cry when he sees another dog, but can't play.)

[FrankEinstein]

Our puppy Sugar, about 4 1/2 months, does the same thing. A dog trainer told us that mouthing around the face and neck are normal, that a dog will let another know when it's gone too far. Sugar seems more rambunctious than some other dogs when doing this, though. However, most other dog owners at the dog park we go to know that this type of play is okay. One guy with a King Charles was upset because Sugar kept grabbing at his pup's ears, but that its floppy ears were covering its neck! Older dogs don't seem to play the same way, so it's good to let your puppy play with other puppies. I assume that like other dogs, when Sugar gets older she'll play differently. I'd be worried if your dog bites hard (like one Boston Terrier did to Sugar) or if he/she nips at the legs or tail of another dog.

Frank

(By the way, the dog park at Magnuson, in Seattle, has a small dogs section, which is often filled with puppies and like-sized adults. The puppies there can act more like puppies.)

[wendykei]

Thanks everyone. This is all very reassuring. Most of the dog owners at the (Belltown) dog park also think I shouldn't worry about intervening. Just so people know what the dog trainer for our obedience class suggested--if Sidney is nipping at another dog and that dog gives him a signal to back off (like growling out of anger or crying out) and Sidney still doesn't back off, THEN pick him up to give him a quick time out. That seemed reasonable to me. In contrast, I didn't like the fact that the day care owner (who originally made this sound like it was a big problem) separated him from all of the other dogs for longer periods of time.

[franp]

When we had the puppies at my house on Saturday , I watched how they interacted..And one of the ways that they played was biting at each others back legs..
That included my adult dog.. She did not do it hard, but she did nip at the other dogs legs..And at thier faces and necks.

Yesterday, another of her friends came over; a dog almost her age.. Here too, they both nipped at each others' legs and bit at each other.. Self limiting in all cases.

I really wonder where the owners of these day care places get thier "knowlegde"? How many of them have ever raised a litter?Or trained a dog? Not many, I bet...One of the many reasons I stopped using day care after a very short time.. And some very bad experiences..


fran

[wendykei]

I agree--my understanding before talking to the daycare owner was that dogs will handle behavior on their own. And you do have to worry a bit about your dog getting nipped a little too hard, but it happens. The more that I hear and the more feedback I get, the more I'm convinced that Sidney's behavior doesn't warrant the severe "punishment" of being put in extensive time outs. I will talk to the daycare owner and see what her response is. If she continues to balk at putting him in with the other dogs, I will not take him back.

[franp]

Most people also have NO clue as to the way that our dogs play ; rough and loud.They are BULLDOGS...

IMO and experience,Frenchies have no business being in with the little dogs. The play style and body type is just not suited for little frou- frou types. Too many day care places just do not get it that FBD's are NOT small dogs..There in lies the problem.. To this day,Dari does not like little dogs because they went after her as a pup.. When the daycare put her in (against my instructions) with the small dogs.

There is a thread here about how someone thought Adora (Lesly's dog) would snort them to death... Yea right.Kill them with grunts and noise.

Nope, I am no fan of daycare. A good dogwalker is all that is needed.

fran

[wendykei]

Thanks for the advice, Fran. I don't know yet about hiring a dog walker but I may try one of the other doggie day cares. Several people at the dog park recommended a nearby daycare that they thought was excellent.

I agree with your assessment that they are not "small" dogs. Sidney loves to "body slam" and wrestle with the big dogs. I was happy that the trainer at our obedience school noted to the class that FBs just play like this and it is common to the breed.

[EmD, MD]

Penny does that neck biting thing. Unfortunately it is also usually accompanied by a really terrible-sounding bark. I have been worried about what the other dogs' owners think...I know she's harmless, but other people don't. When Penny picks out a dog to hassle, I usually just watch the other dog's parent to see if they look worried, and if they do I keep Penny on my lap until that dog leaves. Some days she just has bad days and we have to leave early. (She is 15 mos.)