Peeing... Out of Spite???

[wendykei]

Has anyone experienced something similar? I'm sure there must be something wrong in how I'm correcting Sidney (???) when he has indoor accidents, so any advice is appreciated. This past week, whenever I ignore him (rare--he gets a lot of attention), such as when he's begging for my food, he stops begging, walks two feet away but still right in front of me, and pees!!!! He had been so good up until this past week! Some times when I'm in the shower and he can't play with me, he'll cry a little bit and then when I get out of the shower he's left a puddle on the bathroom floor.

It also happens when (if I can't keep my eye on him) I stick him in the bathroom, where we have puppy gates to block the doorway, but so he can still see/hear us. He immediately starts crying and howling. Then when I go to get him out (usually within five minutes or so max), he's peed on the floor. He doesn't seem to do this if we actually leave the apartment. Also, he doesn't cry much if I put him into his crate.

When he does have accidents, I usually say no firmly ONLY if I catch him in the act. I don't make a big deal about it--I just clean it up. I haven't been as consistent as I probably should be about immediately taking him outside when I catch him in the act (getting outside of our apt is like an obstacle course--mea culpa)..... But the fact that he pees when he wants attention or doesn't get his way seems unrelated to that.

Anyway, as I said, this has only been happening for the past week...... Before that, I would have said he was doing very well with potty training. Any thoughts?

[wendykei]

That's a great point! He doesn't have a signal (i.e., waiting by the door). But--I don't know how to recognize when he's begging because he needs to go out vs. begging because he wants my dinner (or begging because he wants to be sitting in the bed with me vs. begging because he needs to potty)......!! My thought was that he was doing it to get attention (even if it's negative), so I thought maybe instead of correcting when he pees in the house I should ignore him completely..... But everything I've read says that if you actually catch them in the act, you SHOULD let them know that they've displeased you!! But now I feel bad--what if he's trying to let me know he needs to go out??

[wendykei]

One problem with that theory is that I'm usually playing with him or otherwise interacting with him immediately before I sit down to eat or whatever that requires me to stop giving him my direct attention..... SO why wouldn't he let me know then (crying/barking) that he needs to go out?? Maybe he's distracted.

Also, just FYI, we do walk him approx every 3-4 hours during the day/evening, so he has lots of opportunities to go outside.

[FrankEinstein]

I doubt that it's spite, but we have the same problem with our 17 week old, Sugar. We find it very difficult to figure out when she's telling us that she needs to go out since she's non-vocal (at least of that!). She'll just squat and pee right in front of us if we're not quick enough. Because we're merely guessing, we end up taking her out every two hours. I'm afraid that she's not learning to hold it as she should.

Frank

[paulabeans]

Months ago, someone posted a suggestion about putting hanging christmas bells on the doorknob of the door that you use to take your puppy out. If I remember how this works, every time you take him/her out, you tap the bells with your hand so that they ring before you open the door. Then after a few times of this, you take his/her paw and tap the bells before you go out. Eventually and HOPEFULLY, they will tap the bells on their own when they want you to open the door to go potty.

If I am not describing the technique properly, someone please correct me ;)

By the way, Frenchies usually take longer than most breeds to be housbroken :(

Paula

[Bridget]

I have bells on the door and after a week, Pepe was hitting them on his own letting us know he had to go out. Before then, he didn't have a signal letting us know either. It's been about three weeks now and he is doing very good with it.

[wendykei]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I had been thinking of trying the xmas bells previously, so now I'm totally encouraged to try that. Glad to hear at least one person's had success with that. I had not been expecting (based on reading threads in this forum) to have Sidney housebroken earlier than between, say, six months and approximately never (just kidding) since the FBs are notoriously difficult to train, but I was feeling discouraged because we seem to have taken a step back instead of forward. I will just have to lower my expectations even more regarding how easy this process will be. ;) Of course, we finally have Sidney sleeping in his crate through the whole night (from about 11:00 to 6:30 or even 7:00) with no accidents and I'm grateful for that!!

[roxyluv]

I want to try the bells too. All Roxy does is sit by the door silently...but if I don't see her go back to the door right away, she'll do her business right there....maybe the bells would work.

I think trying to go out right after playtime will help -- playing usually gives Roxy the urge to go, so I know that a few minutes into it to take her outside. And she hasn't had any accidents in a while now (unless I neglect to see her standing by the door, and that's my own fault).

You also want to be sure that Sidney connects the outside with potty time first and playtime second. For instance, only bring him outside for a few minutes at a time....if he's successful the first time out then you can praise praise praise and continue playing. If not, bring him back inside and watch him closely to make sure he doesn't have an accident. Then try again a few minutes later -- eventually, he'll connect going outside with doing his business, and then he shouldn't be as inclined to go in the house when you're not paying attention to him.

Roxy's always near me when I'm home - even if I'm not paying 100 percent attention to her (but that's rare). If she's not close by, I know its because she's up to trouble. I make every effort to keep her within eye shot at all possible times -- and I think she knows now that if she squats in front of me I won't be happy, so it's a good way to prevent accidents.

The only other thing that might help is crating him when you can't pay attention to him or have to take a shower or something. But I would make sure he doesn't really have to go to bathroom first, or then you'll have an even bigger mess to clean up. :D

[wendykei]

I just hate to crate Sidney while I'm in the shower since he's already been crated through the night and then we have to crate him again while we're both at work. I try to crate him for as little time as possible when we're home, though we do occasionally crate him if we need to go somewhere for longer than, say, an hour. For shorter errands we leave him confined in the bathroom which is secured with a puppy gate. It's funny, but we've gone out on errands that have taken longer than we expected (up to two and a half hours) and we've left him confined (not crated) in the bathroom, and he hasn't had any accidents. That's why it seems to us like he only has these accidents when we are home and he feels like we're not paying attention to him!! He's lucky he's just so darned cute!

[wendykei]

Well, yesterday, I took Sidney to the dog park (where he peed numerous times) and we walked home. I took him to his potty spot before going inside and he peed. Not once, but twice--and a pretty decent amount.

When we got inside, I immediately put him in his confined area so I could start making dinner (a rare event requiring my full attention). He started howling, but I ignored him thinking, "He just peed twice," he must just want attention. After about five minutes of his howling, I walked over to his area and sure enough. He'd peed on the floor. This time I went back to the kitchen and continued to ignore him for a few more minutes before cleaning up his mess or going to retrieve him. He howled. When I finally came back, I said, "Shush, Sidney. Good boy," and lured him into his crate and shut the crate door. I cleaned up the mess and left him in the crate, where he was fine (no howling). If he doesn't mind his crate, why doesn't he go in there, since we keep it within the same confined area???

So now I'm thinking that he really does want attention when he pees on the floor in the house and that we need to use the crate more than we are now. I really hate to confine him in his crate during the evenings since he's already stuck in there for two 3-4 hour sessions while my boyfriend and I are at work. Any more words of advice? Is this just how it has to be for the next couple of weeks (or longer)??

[FrankEinstein]

We're having the same problem with Sugar, our 17 month old. She will pee every time we take her outside, yet she still pees indoors. We try to give her a treat now when she pees outside in her spot because that seemed to help with the pooping, but she will still go when we're nearby. She's also been going in her portable crate, which she uses during the day. I think that because there's a thick towel under her, she doesn't mind peeing on it, even though she does try to scoot away from it as best she can. We just can't seem to get the peeing thing down either.

Frank

[chrestomancie]

I really like the bell idea. I am going to try it with my godpuppies. They are still having a lot of potty accidents inside. Does anyone who did the bells have cats? How many times did the cats ring the bells by playing with them or do they seem to lose interest after a while?

[lollerskates]

i also really like the idea of bells. i have a set that i've been meaning to set up, but have been somewhat skeptical. i'm so happy to hear that they work for some people. lola definitely doesn't have a signal for needing to go out. and as a result we've had a lot of miscommunications resulting in accidents. :o

lola also used to pee in her crate sometimes which made me nervous because everything i read said that puppies would absolutely do everything possible to NOT pee in their crate. i made her space a little smaller and would set my alarm for 15 minutes before she normally woke up (which was early!!!) to take her out. after a couple days of this, she stopped going in her crate! appicon i was very proud of both of us!

[wendykei]

I got some Poochie Bells to hang on our door. We'll see how well it works--I'll keep everyone posted on our progress....!

[Bridget]

As I stated, we have been using the bells for about a month now with Pepe. Before that, I had him male training pants on so if he did try to pee in the floor, it would not get on the carpet and I could run him out. I waited for him to use the bells for a week straight and not have any accidents in his pants. I have now taken the pants off and he is still ringing the bell and has not had an accident in a week. The bell works!

[wendykei]

Wow, I have never heard of doggie training pants!!!! I will have to look those up online. :) My boyfriend thinks I'm completely crazy because of the things I do for this dog.