How much to feed?

[FrankEinstein]

Now that I've been reading this forum (I was focusing on the Behaviors forum earlier), I've discovered that we may be feeding Sugar improperly. We had been mixing kibble and raw medalions (Nature's Variety for both) for each meal. Sugar is 15 weeks and 7 1/2 pounds. From what I understand now, we should not be mixing kibble and raw. Is that true? I also read many different things about how much to feed a puppy. Can anyone recommend a feeding amount? I think that I'd like to give her raw in the morning and evening with kibble in the afternoon. Thanks for any advice.

Frank

[Borgan]

You are correct, no point in mixing. I would totally cancel out the kibble.

For puppy, feed 7% of the body weight, split over 2 or three meals. With treats in between, of course!!!

[gmacleod]

Definitely you should not mix raw with kibble - never in the same meal. Dogs are perfectly designed to eat raw meat and bones - even in the sort of 'gamey' state that would certainly make you or I sick. But the reason they can cope so easily with that is that (a) they have extremely strong digestive acids (much stronger than ours), and (b) they have a very short digestive tract. These two things combine to allow the dog to process it's raw food very quickly. And as a result, they are not susceptible to bacteria in the food.

If you mix the kibble and the raw though, then you effectively remove the dog's defence against bacteria - that speed of digestion. Kibble takes between 8-14 hours to digest (versus about 5 for a raw meat/bone meal) - so the mixture of raw and kibble sits around for an unnaturally long time, leaving the dog vulnerable. That's just not what nature intended when she designed the dog's digestive system ;)

Since kibble does take so long to digest, I would suggest that you should probably choose the evening meal to feed kibble. That would give your pup a good 10+ hours to digest his kibble before the raw food arrives in his stomach. He wouldn't get that digestion time if you gave him kibble as an afternoon meal, between two raw ones...

As for how much food overall. I'd simply suggest that you feed him roughly 2/3 of the amount in raw food as he would get if he was 100% on raw, and likewise 1/3 of the amount of kibble. You can adjust those amounts upward or downward as required, as you see how your pup does on that amount of food :)

[FrankEinstein]

Thanks so much for the advice. I'll switch to raw in the morning and afternoon and then kibble at night.

I was wondering about the 7% amount, though. That seems like a lot more than we'd been feeding her. I'm also getting mismatching information on the Nature's Variety website versus the bag of food itself. I read that someone was feeding a 22 lb adult 7 medalions of Nature's Variety, which are supposedly 1 oz. each according to the website, but if I fed Sugar 7% of her weight, the way I calculate it, she'd be eating more tha the adult at her mere 7 lb.!

Frank

[franp]

Finding the right amount to feed on raw is almost trial and error.

Dari is 23 pounds and I feed her about 4 ounces of raw a day. The instructions that Bravo gives would have me feeding her almost double that. She would be a BLIMP..

Puppies do need more than an adult; but I think the manufacturers are way over on thier recommendations.

Use common sense; feed her but if it seems like allot, then it probably is.

fran

[gmacleod]

Well, as a general rule, puppies would start out eating about 10% of their body weight in raw food and gradually decrease that percentage (not the actual amount of food, just the percentage of ideal body weight) until they're eating 2-3% of that ideal weight as an adult. That varies a little from dog to dog - just like people, some run on the smell of an oily rag and need minimal food intake or else end up gaining too much weight. Others require substantially more than average, and are still skinny. Could be that the dog you read about was one of the "oily rag" variety and just needed a lot less food than most.

It's probably best to start on the recommended amount (in the region of 7% of her body weight, adjusted to account for you only feeding 2/3 raw) and adjust that upward or downward according to how your pup is doing on it. If she starts to look at all chubby, cut the food back - it's better for a pup to be on the thin side than ever to be overweight :)

Here's a useful site for doing feeding calculations: http://www.hare-today.com/feedCalc.asp

[My2Frenchies]

Here's a useful site for doing feeding calculations: http://www.hare-today.com/feedCalc.asp

All of the feeding calculation charts I have looked at, including the one above, recommend approx. 16 oz. per day for my Baxter. I've read in many posts that these calculations are usually way too much food, but that is what I started feeding him and I figured I would gradually decrease the amount of food he is getting. I have been feeding him raw for one month now and he has LOST two pounds. I have also been feeding Allie according to the calculator (she gets a little less than Baxter), and she has maintained her weight. It seems that I'm feeding Baxter more than I've read anyone else feeding their dog. Should I continue with the amount he's been getting since he has been losing weight? And decrease the amount accordingly as he loses weight?

He came to us a bit on the "chunky" side, but did not lose any weight on kibble, even when we decreased his servings.

[gmacleod]

If he's losing weight, then yes, I'd keep feeding him the amount you're feeding. Every dog is different and those sorts of feeding calculators really just work on what's "average". You just have to adjust for the needs of the individual. Same as for kibble - people have to depart from the guidelines on the packet with dry food as well, if their individual dog requires a greater or lesser amount of food. Those who don't end up either with obese animals or with underweight ones.

The age of the dog can have a lot to do with it as well, with younger animals having faster metabolisms than mature or eldely ones (again, just like people ;)). There can be an adjustment period too, when you first switch to raw - some people's dogs lose some weight, and others start to gain quickly. It's all down to the individual and you just have to feed accordingly :)

Now - you do say that Baxter needed to lose a few pounds. You should be feeding him acording to his ideal weight, not his actual weight ;) The fact that he's losing weight is most likely due to the lower fat and carbohydrate content of a raw diet (and that's a good thing!) versus kibble. Dogs have no evolved need of carbohydrates in the diet at all - and that's one reason that diet foods don't work well, they're loaded up with carbohydrates instead of protein ;) If he is losing weight nicely on the amount you're currently giving him, then there's probably no need to make immediate changes. It is actually possible though, that you'll have to increase his food once he reaches ideal weight - but you could wait and see where he stabilises at first.

[Chris&Eti]

A good visual guide for weight is the ribs-you should not be able to see them but be able to feel them -they should feel like the back of your hand.
Eti eats about 13 ozs, 3.5% of his body weight-23lbs. He's 14 months. I keep thinking that I should be tapering the quantity down but he still looks right and is pretty active.

[April]

I am a little confused about the amount to feed Little Bo.
He is almost two years old & 25 lbs. I feed him 1 cup in the am and 1 cup in the pm of dry Nutro Sensitive Stomache. Can anyone say if this is about the proper amount? Thanks!

[Borgan]

Do you have a scale?
How much does 2 cups of dry weigh?
He should eat no less than .5 pounds of food a day.
More if he's wired all the time.

[April]

I guess I will have to weigh the cup to see how much then.
Thank you; I can't tell by him - he would eat everything in sight.

[Borgan]

Do I ever know what you mean!!!
God forbid someone should ever let my dog loose at Uncle Willy's.

[Borgan]

ps. Check the most recent posting about organ meats - might be of interest to you.

[wendykei]

Do you have a scale?
How much does 2 cups of dry weigh?
He should eat no less than .5 pounds of food a day.
More if he's wired all the time.

So does that mean that most kibble is comparable in calories per cup? Because wouldn't it be the caloric content of 1 cup of kibble that matters vs. how much it weighs? This is one reason I'm confused about general formulas (i.e. percentage of body weight), etc. For example, if I feed 1 cup of kibble that contains 500 calories versus 1 cup of kibble that contains 700 calories--they could (theoretically) weigh the same, but the latter contains more "energy" per cup than the former depending on the ingredients in each. Or is kibble generally standardized so a cup of Kibble A is roughly equivalent in calories to a cup of Kibble B???

With Sidney, I guesstimate--I look at what the can recommends for an adult dog and multiply by about 1.25 since he's almost 5 months old (so I'm not doubling anymore, but still giving a little extra). Plus he gets lots of training treats between meals. On a normal day he gets about 3.5 of the 5.5 ounce cans of California Natural Chicken+Rice plus treats. On the one day a week that he's extremely active (i.e., at doggy day care), I add a little more.

If people have feedback on this strategy, I would love to hear it. I often wonder if I am giving him enough since he always DEVOURS his meals. The vet says he looks fine (I ask every time we go in), so I have just kept guesstimating his food requirements.

[wendykei]

LOL. Good, in reading the post above mine--I'm relieved that Sidney is not the only one who goes around like he's starving all the time. :)

[gmacleod]

So does that mean that most kibble is comparable in calories per cup? Because wouldn't it be the caloric content of 1 cup of kibble that matters vs. how much it weighs?

Noooo! Most kibble is absolutely NOT comparable in calories per cup. Nor is it comparable in nutrient-availability. A dry food that contains a lot of meat ingredients is far superior in nutrient-availability than one that contains a lot of grain - and you would feed a lesser amount accordingly.

Just as an example: If you feed a high quality food like Canidae, which has a large amount of good quality meat ingredients and 468 calories per cup - then you would feed around 2 cups per day to a 50lb dog.

Choose to feed an ultra-low quality food like Pedigree instead though (which still has about 330 calories per cup) and you'll be feeding that 50lb dog about 6 cups per day. Part of the reason is that there's less energy in the food (330 calories versus 468). And a large part of the reason is that junk food like Pedigree is mostly corn and meat by-products (rejects from the human food chain - usually because the quality is so low) which offer such poor nutrition and are so difficult to digest that the dog gets little out of it.

So no, there is absolutely no "standard" amount of dry food to feed. It will vary widely according to the quality of the food you're giving the dog.

This is one reason I'm confused about general formulas (i.e. percentage of body weight), etc.

Percentages of body weight work for raw food. And the nutrient availability of raw food is about as high as it gets. That's the natural way for a dog to consume it's food - and raw diets do not contain grains which are the thing dogs find so difficult to digest and hence to get nutrients/energy out of. Vegetables are also difficult for dogs to digest, of course, and these have to be pulverised before being fed (if they're not, they'll come out the other end in the same state they went in ;)). But vegetables only make up a small percentage of the diet - most of it is meat and bone (and offal). For this food, there is far greater comparability between the energy content/availability of different meats, so a percentage by body weight is a reasonable measure. It's still only a guide though and has to be adjusted for the individual and the particular food. That is why some dogs eat 2% (or even a little less) of their ideal body weight daily, and others might eat 3% (or slightly more).