When to let go

[J20]

My baby is 7 months and has been to puppy social classes and as of yet loves every thing that moves :)

I would love to let him off the lead to play, but scared he would run away. :eek:
I was speaking to another dog owner who's dog plays with Monty and he said that after he has done what he needs to do, take him in to the fenced in kids ground and let him go.

So at 7am I went in to the park shut the gate and let him off, he shot off like a rocket. He sprinted from one end to the other and loved every minute.

I just sat on the bench and watched him and every so often I called him and if he came over I made him sit and gave him a treat. Then some one came past with a dog and he shot to the fence and even though I called and ran away from him he did not come until the other dog was out of sight. Am I doing the right things. I can not let him off in the main park as I know he would run away if he saw another dog and there are 4 entrances that lead to the main road and I would never catch him. Any advice as he loved his freedom so much.

[franp]

Dari is NEVER off leash unless she is in a dog park that allows this.I live in NYC and it would be much too dangerous for her; not to mention against the law for her to be off leash.

I know that Roosje takes her dogs to places out of town and lets them roam and they come back.

For me , that would never happen.I do not have enough trust in myself to allow her off leash where there are no fences..

My advice to you; at this point it sounds like your dog needs ALLOT more training.. Let him off leash in a fenced, secure area.that way you know he will be safe.

[gmacleod]

I think you're on the right track :)

Practicing recall is essential. And it's also essential that your dog learns that when he comes to you, he will be rewarded. Treats are great, but you might just find that a game is more effective. Does he enjoy games like tug? That can be a very effective reward for a pup. The trick to getting a reliable recall from your dog amidst distractions is being more rewarding than anything else. A hard ask when the dog is a puppy and things like other dogs are so very exciting ;)

The other thing that is very important is that coming to you should not mean the end of his fun. So calling your dog periodically, rewarding him for coming with treats or a game (actually water too - I find that one quite effective, since I have a boxer who overheats easily and is very willing to come for a drink), then sending him back off to play is a good idea. That way, the dog won't come to associate coming with the end of his fun.

Two things that can be a good idea for you: One is letting him run on a long line. That way you can give him a certain amount of freedom, but enforce the rules if he doesn't listen to your recall command.

The second is finding another dog for him to play with, who does have a good recall. That way, you can practice letting him play and periodically having to come to you (rewarded, of course) since he'll follow the other dog's lead.

I have a couple of "rules" for Henri - that he understands pretty well ;) We go down to Wandsworth Common a couple of times every day. It is semi-fenced, and there are often other dogs there for him to play with. He gets his freedom as we do a lap of the common - and he's mostly un-interrupted in his fun. He just has to generally keep up with me as I walk (playing as he goes) and has to meet me at the end of the lap to be re-leashed. He does that without fail, so we're generally both happy. BUT, if at any time I call him during the walk (which happens fairly often), he has to come. If he does (which is 99% of the time) he is rewarded, then sent back to play. If I have to go and get him though (which still happens once in a while), he is leashed and we go straight home (loss of rewards). It's a system that works very well - the one thing dogs do understand well is rewards/removal of rewards ;)

So if you can teach your pup that you'll always reward him (make a big fuss of him and play games that he loves - it's more effective when he's hyped up than food will be) when he complies, and that he won't lose his playtime by coming to you, then you'll be well on the way to an effective recall. It takes time and work though! Do look into the possibility of finding a playmate to help teach him though - it's amazing how quickly dogs learn from other dogs ;)

[J20]

Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try but like Dari i am scared that he will run away and never come back. :( At the same time so many people go to the park and let their dogs off. I do get annoyed with some who let their dogs off but the dogs are aggressive towards other dogs.

Your walking past with your dog on a lead then this "big hairy thing" comes bounding over and has a go at your baby. I go mad at the owner and then i'm the one nearly having the fight :lol:

If you have control then great and that's what i would love. Then there is the getting to that stage :eek:

I think i will continue in the kids area for quite some time :D He will have to be content with playing with me for a while.

[gmacleod]

Definitely the kids area for quite a while - your guy is a puppy approaching adolescence ;) And teaching effective recall takes time. If you can find someone with a well-educated dog to come and play with him there though, that can be pretty useful. Desensitising to distractions like other dogs, and the rewards of coming to you when you call him are only going to be learnt with exposure.

[franp]

I am curious as to what the leash laws are where you live?
Most places here in the US require that dogs be on leash except in areas designated off leash.

One of my pet peeves is dogs off leash. They are a menace as well as a nusance.There are leash laws for a reason.

[gmacleod]

Same in the UK. But we're not talking about the streets or areas where dogs are required to be leashed (or at least, I'm not). We're talking about areas where dogs are NOT required to be leashed (and, frankly, where leashed dogs can be the menace). Most of the commons here (common ground - which is a very large park, sometimes including areas of forest) have designated off leash areas. That is where I let my dog run off leash. Same thing as what you call the dog park ;)

[franp]

OK. It was not clear in your post..It sounded like you had him running in an "open " area..

Thanks for clarifying..

There have been a number of instances that Dari and I have been acosted by off leash dogs.The owner always prefaces with" My dog is friendly"..

Well, my dog CAN be leash aggressive and I don't give two hoots if your dog is friendly.Get it on a leash. And while we are on this topic.. I HATE (yes HATE) flexi leads..For those of you on this board that use them;if you insist, please DO NOT let them out the full extension. Besides being rude, your dog is Not under control...

end of my rant..

[gmacleod]

Hmmm. Well, you know what they say about assuming... ;) Ask first - it saves a lot of time and energy spent on unrelated rants.

[J20]

We have many parks in my area that are railed off but they have 3/4 gates leading in to them, which lead to the main roads. Our parks just say pick up after your dog and there are several Dog waste bins around the park.

Even so as well as naughty Dogs off leads we have "dirty dogs" and i'm not talking about "dogs" i cannot believe that people let the dog foul on the grass then leave it! That really gets me :mad:

I always make sure were ok before i even go in to the park. We have very large parks like Regents Park, Parliment Hill, Hampstead Heath, that are very large almost forest like that you can walk for miles with you dogs on or off. I can not comprehend the size of Central Park..... :) but i'm sure Monty would love every tree . :lol:

[miserlou]

My dogs run off leash in an open area - a hill close by, to be exact. No fences.

In the beginning I was afraid to let Elsi run off leash, but she's so much after Iida (my Amstaff) that she stays pretty much glued to her. And Iida stays glued to me. Iida is my shadow, and screams bloody murder if she loses the sight of me (this happens when someone is holding her, and I walk away from her - thankfully she hasn't been doing that lately...). Even if people that she knows and likes call her, AND all her four-legged-friends are there too, she waits for me to go with her.

When Iida was a puppy, I let her run off leash whenever possible (in Finland we still have a lot of space and forests for everyone :) and the best place to practise this was on ice! On the frozen sea we took walks to little islands! :) ) AND if she didn't pay attention to me, but ran wherever she felt like, I would hide e.g. behind a tree, and wait. Soon she would realise that mommy has disappeared and start panicking. Didn't have to do this many times to make my point - she has to follow me, not the other way around. Basically I just walk quietly, not calling her to follow me when I take a turn or change direction. This way she learned never to let me out of her sight. I also used to carry treats with me all the time. Call Iida every now and then just to give her a piece of biscuit and then send her off again. Now when people call their dogs, Iida is the one racing to them... :rolleyes:

Before I got Elsi I was reading somewhere, that Frenchies shouldn't be let run off leash in open areas because they'll leave with anyone! Sometimes Elsi is tempted to follow some lovely human and her (younger women are her favorite) lovely dog, but so far has chosen me and Iida in the end. :lol: Actually she listens pretty well. She sits down and waits for permission to run off when I have taken off the leash (both of them have to look me in the eyes and wait for me to "excuse them" :D - this also before they can start eating) and when I need to catch her, she stops when I tell her to. In fact she knows where I'm going to get them back on leash, and she stops there to wait for me.

By the way: there are NO dog parks in Greece. There doesn't seem to be any leash laws either. Most of the dogs are off leash. This is NOT a good thing at all. I think I will age very fast as I'm constantly getting heart attacks when dogs appear out of nowhere, no owners to be seen anywhere. :mad: And this is also why breeds such as Pit Bulls get such a bad, and undeserved, reputation - irresponsible owners who don't understand that most of them are very animal aggressive (same sex) and therefore should not be let to roam in the streets off leash! :mad:

[Carolyn]

I live in So Calif and there are no "doggie parks" here where they can go off leash. We have a couple of "doggie" beaches where dogs are allowed off leash but I wouldn't dream of taking Abby and Ferris...it's usually too hot for them and there are also too many crazy people who turn loose their aggressive/unsupervised dogs. We are fortunate in that we have nearly an acre of fenced in property and they have plenty of running space. Doesn't help much with their socialization but at least they are safe and getting exercise.

[phoebesmom]

I too have let Phoebe off the leash when she was a baby, BUT we had been to quite a few puppy socialisation classes where basically all we did was the recall, and it has worked like a charm. We practised ALL the time when she was small, even if she was just a metre away from me, and now her daily walks in the forest are totally off leash, as are most of the other dogs. The only time I put her on a leash is if we go to the city together, for obvious reasons.

When we are walking she will sometimes go off and explore, but ALWAYS within my eyesight, and she is very quick to come running back to me. She is a delight to walk with as she is always close to me and we have a lot of fun together.

We by law have to pick up the poop over here, and are provided with special bins and bags (robidogs) all over the place, and I would say that 99 percent of people do it, thank goodness, as I also hate it when people leave the mess behind.

[J20]

Yesterday evening as we walked our baby (on lead) this playful Jack Russell
came bounding over with his owner and a toy. As we walked past he flew at Monty, teeth nashing :eek:

The man grabbed his dog and my baby was more shocked as he did not know whet he had done. :confused:

He seemed ok but as we walked along i noticed blood on his leg and we stopped and wiped it off. It all happened so quick that we did not see how it could of happened. So we sat and checked him over and noticed his mouth was bleeding but we came to the conculsion that he may of bitten his own lip. :(

You know the frilly edge bits that some times poke out of the sides.
I was worried as many years ago we had a English Bullterrier that was bitten by a poodle as a pup and from that day on she was dog aggressive. I was so worried it would happen again. Just as we were having a chat about letting dogs off, this has really put me off because it could of been a lot worse if Monty had been off lead as well.

[gmacleod]

Mmmm - yes, that's often a problem when dogs have got toys. IMO they should never be brought to dog parks in the first place - they're often the cause of fights.

Toys aside (though that was likely the cause of the problem in this case) the thing with leashed/unleashed dogs is that aggression happens most frequently when one or both dogs is leashed. It would be a nice world if all dogs in "leash-required" areas were kept on their leashes, and under control by their owners and NO dogs in off-leash areas were on leash. Between that and keeping toys at home, I think the majority of incidents would be avoided in the first place.

[miserlou]

Totally agree. In Finland not bringing toys to the parks is listed as one of the rules. And yes, I also believe that fights happen more often when one, or both, of the dogs is leashed.

One reason for this is that a dog that's pulling on leash, is leaning forward, which can make him look aggressive to the other dog. Some insecure dogs also feel more mighty when the owner is next to them, or they may feel protetive of him, and this can cause the one kept on his leash to attack.

I've noticed that those dogs that are used to running off leash every day, and were properly socialised with nice dogs when they were puppies, don't usually have any problems when meeting new dogs either - off leash! (Some breeds and some individuals are of course animal aggressive, and those should better be kept on their leashes! I keep saying this because a pit mix attacked Iida last Sunday :( , thankfully I was quick enough to catch the dog before she sank her teeth into her. This dog was leashed, but the girl couldn't hold her! Talk about a time bomb... :mad: )

[Piperloo]

We have a dog park fairly close to where we live and have taken Piper there to run around off leash. Of course, this was before her slipped disc. I never ever let her off leash around our home although when she runs out the door she just comes right back inside - unless she knows the location of a pile of cat poop she needs to eat! Luckily we have a loooong, steep driveway so we are a good distance from the road. We are working on fencing in our front yard so that she has somewhere else to go besides the deck. We have a vacation home that's surrounded by woods and has a good size yard. There are no neighbors and no busy streets remotely nearby so she's allowed off leash when we are there. She just seems to want to stay close to us and lay in the sun. (I think being so exhausted from the car trip and excitement of vacation helps!) If she does make a run for it I can always catch her long before she gets into trouble.

I get sooo jealous of people who can let their dogs run off leash responsibly! I have a few friends with those kinds of dogs and the dogs come back immediately when called. My husband gets discouraged but I keep reminding him that we don't have a "pleasing" kind of dog like a lab or golden. Frenchies seem to like to think only of themselves and see how far they can push the envelope!

Piperloo